ClutchCity.net Game Thread: Grizzlies @ Rockets 2/22/2003

Are you suggesting that Memphis plays good D??? I think I misunderstood that post...

Also, if you believe Francis is "holding us back", then what the F**K is with your freakin BBS username???

 

You, nor anybody else, could possibly ever suggest this team is better without Francis... Do you not remember our record last year without Francis in the lineup!?!?!? What is happening to you people? EVERYONE! You're all being brainwashed by MING! HE IS NOT THE END OF OUR PROBLEMS, AND FRANCIS WAS NOT THE BEGINNING!!!

Keep in mind that this win came at home, at home against the GRIZZLIES, and only by 8 damn points. My god this board is really starting to piss me off.

 

wait a second, y'all two didn't think i was kidding with my post? i thought referring to him as "that guy steve" and the "never guarding the middle" lines would give it away. and someone will be holding a gun to my head before i ever say start moochie with any seriousness. and even then i would have to weigh my options. death or proclaim that i want mooch to start. tough.

 

The Rockets are a better TEAM with w/out Francis. Now, before you freak out...hear me out.

The Rockets have scoring power with Francis in the line up. And that is how we won games the last 3 years. Francis would take it one-on-one, and win many games this way. Very rarely would we win as a team. Lots of ISOs. Now, if Francis didn't play (in the past), we most certainly lose because they were so addicted to ISOs and they really didn't have a game plan to play as a team. Never had a reason to practice playing w/out Francis. They never realized the importance of playing as a TEAM actually gives you power (rather than the one-on-one crap). We have a real good chance of wining on Monday W/OUT Francis. Now, this doesn't mean that Francis scoring wont be missed. But Mobely can hold the ship until he gets back. In the past, this would have been unheard of (winning w/out Francis).

Francis should be moved to the 2. Period. He's not a PG. He's a SG with some PG skills. If you want to start winning with any consistency, we have to move him to the 2. Else, we wait 2-3 more years for Francis to develop his young PG brain (let's see, that would make him 28 years old).

I've listen to Rudy claim that he wants to make Francis into the next Isiah. This wont happen. Isiah is part of the elite 9000 assist club. Plus, he kept his turnovers down.

 

I AGREE

 

I'm sorry, but that's BS. Mainly because much of it didn't make a whole lotta sense. Do you remember how much smoother the offense ran through Francis' hands last season when he actually got to play? Ask Clutch, and others you might trust if you don't want to take my word for it.

I might be able to agree with your point that we should move Francis to the 2, but not as it is. That can't happen unless we find a decent point to replace him with, cuz right now he's still better at the 5 than anything else we got.

Also, are you saying that the Rockets just magically realize how to play as a team when Francis is out this season? Now that you've seen this one game against the GRIZZLIES incredible defense? I never saw that happen any of the past years, why now? Oh, I guess it must be cuz of Ming... Or are you suggesting Moochie suddenly totally matured and became much better than he was like a month ago...

I very rarely say something this bold, but I personally gaurantee that if Francis doesn't play Monday, the ship sinks. I hope I'm wrong.

NEVER, EVER, EVER predict Rocket behavior based on a single game, especially one as meaningless as this. This is a lesson the Rockets have taught us far too often this season, and one that should be branded into your brain by now.

 

BTW, I'm pretty sure that you're going to tell me you weren't basing your argument just on this game, but I'm pretty sure you were. Can you honestly tell me you would have posted that here had the Rockets lost?

 

You never seem me complain when we win (phantom wins), and not complain when we lose (good loses), have you?

phantom wins = Francis and Mobley ISO shots go in.

Good loses = We play TEAM ball against a playoff caliber team, yet the other team shoots 50%, and they hit a game winner.

 

What you call "smoother" is Francis's shots going in. Yes, we won some games like that. But you can't win consistently like that.

And Francis is a "decent" PG? No. He's bad PG, a great SG.

 

By the way, GRIZZLIES don't play great defense. But that's not how they win. They win by playing smart team-offense. We would get picked appart by their team-offense on pure fundamental reasons.

Then, we couldn't counter them with our ISOs.

The Grizz game before that (the one that Francis played in) we won a nail-biter. Why? They are .500!

This is how we should beat sub .500 teams. Just like last night.

 

DavidS, well said. I totally agree with you.

Sometimes, I would rather lose by playing team basketball than win by some stupid ISO Francis/Mobley shots magically going in.

 

From my point of view, rockets will be a good playoff machine when Francis minds having more than Mobley scoring. When cares about getting Yao, Posey, Griffin high percentage shots. This can stem from his own creativity, but it would be better if came from team systems which everyone understands and applies when called.

That's what a PG should do and what Francis should do if he is at the Pg spot.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Steve is really worried about how many points he can pour to win a game. Thats pure SG all the way.

Steve is fantastic player, but is not yet smart enough to keep himself for the clutch plays and make his teammate do the job till then.

Don't tell me, Rice, Taylor, Yao do not know how to drain a jumpshot when left alone or make a basket when correctly set down low with no double team.

 

The outstanding performance of Cat makes some buddies here think that Rox is a better team w/o SF. BTW, how many games Cat can shoot over 60% recently? Just imagine he is having his normal 40% fg.....

I hope SF sit aside and watch the game from a different angle, which can inspire him for his bball sense.

KH

 

DavidS -
IMHO, the majority of posters at CC fundamentally fall into 3 categorically broad types of posters. (Some smaller sub groups do exist, but numercially small in number).

Type 1: Player X (fill in the name of any Rocket player or coach for "X") can do nothing wrong and their current level of performance is flawless and directly related to the Rockets success.

Type 2: Player Y (fill in the name of any Rocket player or coach for "Y") can do nothing right and their current level of performance is horrid and directly related to the Rockets lack of success.

Type 3: As a fan of the game and particularly the Rockets, I appreciate each Rocket for what they bring to the table. I am object about each players strengths and weaknesses as I continue to hope for and expect improvement on both the individual and team aspects of the game.

Type 3 posters have an easier time grasping the theory of "gesthalt" - the sum of the whole is greater than the individual parts. Once I recognized the 3 basic poster types, I wasted a lot less time typing .

 

Acutually we did win both Grizillies and Suns without
good contribution from Francis. Also, we almost pulled
a win from Lakers when Francis shot 4 - 19. I am not
saying we don't need Francis. Just to show we need
to play team ball, rather than living or dying with
Francis.

This year the team is much different from last year.
The front court is much better and most times we
outrebounds our opponent. The defense is also,
improved greatly with Ming's addition. What's more,
Can you imagine our bench has 3 old starters?

Recently both Ming and Cat have showed they have
the ability to take over a game when Steve is off.
We have 3 stars rather than 2 stars now. We are
underachieving but the future is really promising

 

RocketGuy3, looks like you are the lone voice here. Of course this team is totally different from last year! You got Yao Ming, the 2nd bester center in the league! More importantly, the Rockets game plan are totally changing because of Yao, going from ISO to team-oriented, inside-out, motion offense game. After the ASG break, it has been increasingly clear that Rockets offense is going this healthy way, even though our record does not indicate so. With this system, you can take out 1 or 2 starters, and team will still be effective.

 

[ Originally posted by DavidS

Hey, Looky! We have a PG and SG on the floor at the same time. Not TWO SG! ]

Great observation.

Impressive win.

 

I started being "fan of the game" back in 1987 (approx) would have been blasphemy (Fan of the Rox in 1976).

Back in 87, I had to find out why the Rockets got outsmarted back in 1996 (Boston). Once I took off my Rocket Colored Glasses, and allowed myself to have an open mind. I started to learn why Boston Celtics won so much. I started to fingured out why the Pistons would always beat the Bulls. I started to realize why the Lakers were so good during the 80's (because of the Celtics). Magic was a student of the game, and used the Celtics as a blueprint. He looked up to them in away. He seemed to never think he was better than the Celtics, but was aways was trying to prove himself against them (the losing streak in Boston had a lot to do with it)

If the Rockets got a taste of pure TEAM basketball, with motion, and pure dynamics, they'd never accept anything less. It only takes one taste.

It's the best way to win, and the ONLY way to maintain a DYNASTY.

The 1993-94 team was ISO-based, ulgy ball. The 1994-95 team was better because it added some dynamics with Drelxer. But our stars were at the ends of their careers. Too bad it took Hakeem 10 years to learn TEAM ball.

I leave you with this thoughts....

Who learns faster? Yao or Francis?

 

I hate to point this out, but Moochie jacked up a couple of airballs and Tito got his shot blocked about 4 times. They may not count them as turnovers, but it's still a possession with no actual shot and the other team gets the ball back. But I gotta admit, when Tito tied up Mike Miller for a jump ball on the fast break, that was one of the best defensive plays I've ever seen.

 

Phoenix lost today