ClutchCity.net Game Thread: Clippers @ Rockets 3/12/2003

so now it's a question of "most of your body"? how much is most?

i do not think this was the intent of the rule since it's too subjective. what defines "most"? 50.00001% of a player's body? or maybe 51%? can a ref detect this?

i always thought the intent of the rule was to prevent stepping across, which is definitive and easily seen, as opposed to detecting where "most" of a players body is positioned.

 

I can't find anything in the rules that disallows jumping. I guess you can take a jumpshot from the free throw line if you want.

I wouldn't say all players cross the plane with their arms. Some do though. I guess they are enforcing the lean more than anything because Shaq did it alot last year and Cuban b****ed and moaned.

I guess they are preventing some future dude with crazy long arms to just reach over the FT line and and toss it from 5 feet away.

 

I wasnt sure if this deserved its own thread so I'll just add it here.....I wanted to share with all of you my good fortune tonight. Well, my plans for tonight were to have dinner with my father so I could meet his new wifes family then I get a phone call at about 6:30, it was a friend of mine who had an extra ticket for tonights game...section 112!! So I had to make the decision to either blow off my father or the Rockets...needless to say I got to my seat during the National Anthem and though it shouldnt have been as cloase as it was, I got to see the one of the best games ever as far as last second, unbelievable wins....those of you who were there know what Im talking about. I saw enough bad defense and blown plays to make me cry, but when you are down 5 with 20 seconds left and pull of the tie, and then the win.....ahh it was great

Just thought Id share that with you...talk about luck...theres nothing like getting to go to a game unexpectedly and watching them win

 

I would like to believe that the ref simply thought he made the correct call. That would give me a lot more faith in the system.

But I'm almost 100% certain that he was trying to "make up" for calling the foul, and was going to call a violation on noted offender Miller no matter what he did. And that, to me, is about the worst sin a ref can commit; it's the opposite of the impartiality they are supposed to uphold.

If Andre was guilty on that shot, then every free throw he has ever shot has been a violation, and a good percentage of free throws throughout the league are violations (players follow through or have their arms and knees over the line just about every time). Why suddenly call it now? Because the refs had an agenda for this particular call, and that sickens me.

As I said, the loss means nothing to me (it actually helps us in the LeBron lotto), but as a matter of principle I must object to this outcome. I'm sure you would do the same if it happened against your team.

 

a. posey fouled the crap out of dre

b. apparently miller did technically break the plane, still a horrible horrible call. but i'll take it. i loved calvin's response when bill asked him if he thought it was a good call: "i'm glad it happened... that's all i'll say about that." as in they just got screwed but i'll take it.

c. why are people singling out cat's D? did anybody play any friggin D until like 5 minutes were left? yao and steve were a dynamic duo on pnr defense. yao couldn't get to cherokee who was draining all night long and steve couldn't catch up to dre after going around the pick. both did eventually block their respective tormentors and both were huge plays. odom was beating people, wang freakin zhi freakin zhi abused mo t a few times. maggette either hit J's right on cat or if he got close could drive by. jaric was draining. no one played D. no need to single out cat, who at least had the excuse of guarding the primary option.

d. i consider the call by the refs as perfect payback for yao fouling out against madsen and costing us the lakers game. imho, those are pretty much the same magnitude of fouls. one time we won a game we shouldn't, another we lost a game we shouldn't have. now it's even. it's all good, play on.

e. i love reading the game thread when we make big comeback's. all this negativity and bashing for about 2 hours and then all this extreme happiness and taking back of the various horrible things that were said about the team.

f. wtf?! doc rocket (he of 200 posts in almost 3 years) has busted like 4 posts in a little clippers game thread. wow.

g. i feel for clippy, gotta suck to get screwed like that, we know how it feels.

h. james posey is easily the biggest moron on the team. i've been saying it for a while now. that was a nuggets-style attempt at losing a game.

 

I like the comparison to the Madsen foul a few weeks ago. That was the same thing: a ref tried to "make up" for a call he felt he shouldn't have made (I think it was a charge against Kobe). That's inexcusable, even if the original call was bad.

In this case, it's actually worse because this call clearly decided the game (the other one still gave the Rockets a chance). And there was no reason not to call the foul on Posey, even though it was in the closing seconds... I mean, he hacked the hell out of Miller.

Refs just shouldn't play this kind of role. They need to be replaced by those electronic eye thingies they use in tennis.

 

People are missing the interpretation:

<i>crossing the <b>plane</b> of the free throw line means stepping across the free throw line</i>

He clearly broke the rule. It's the same as when you inbound the ball, if you reach across the line and slap at the ball while the guy is trying to inbound it you broke the plane. You don't have to step over the line, just reach over it. When Andre Miller leaned forward he crossed the plane of the FT line. Violation, wipe out the FT.

 

It is clear to me that the NBA officials are going to start playing by the rules this post season. I like it! The officials should be calling it by the rules. If so.....goodbye Shac! Kevin-MVP-Duncan-Finals MVP. See ya later UTAH! Kiss my crack! 1st round ROX over Dallas! Party at my house!! Good enough for me!

 

Then every player in the NBA breaks this rule. Watch their arms break the plane of the FT line on every FT follow through.

 

That call did not decide the outcome of the game...the ref would have never called it on the second free throw had he missed the first one....Miller was still given the chance to end the game and he failed....there should have been no calls on both incidences

 

Personally, I thought it was a gutsy call, and the correct one too. Referees shouldn't be dissuaded from making the correct call, no matter what time of the game. This game is subjective. We don't use instant replay and that what makes it all the more unpredictable. In a seven game series, though, these factors are more or less insignificant. Let the refs do their job. I'd rather have refs do their best to make the right call, and get it wrong, than refs who make NO calls (think UTAH), and always get it wrong.



theSAGE

 

And crossing the plane doesn't mean walking across the foul line, it means leaning, or even reaching over the line. Anything that violates the plane.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if you've ever shot a free throw in your life.

Repeat after me:

YOUR ARMS CROSS THE FREE THROW LINE ON THE FOLLOW THROUGH OF EVERY FREE THROW SHOT

Unless your name is Nick the Quick or T-mac.

EDIT:

or Special K. can't forget about my boy Cato.

 

I just did a google image search for "free throw". Here are some "typical" free throw stances:

<img src=http://www.mcicenter.com/wizards/images/mini1_7.jpg>
<img src=http://www.goshen.edu/athletics/photos/mbb2-10-5.jpg>
<img src=http://www.starzzfan.com/images/DenaFT.jpg>
<img src=http://www.ocmetro.com/metro103102/images/HOT25%20Amberry.gif> ("world's greatest free throw shooter")

Note the position of the arms and/or knees and/or follow-through.

The rule is about stepping over the line. It was a bad call. And I contend that it wasn't a "blown" call.

 

clippy,

pretty sad that that was even necessary, but apparently it is. i thought this was a basketball bbs?

 

Yippedeeee DOOOO Waaa! We won the game! Now everyone argue!! Go ROX! None of us care if you win or lose! We just want to compete on the Clutch BBS! It gives us something to do!!

 

Technically most people violate the rule just lilke technically everyone travels and carries the ball. This is not black and white.

I don't think the ref should have made that call because it was nit picky. However, Miller was warned before about this in the game and every part of Millers body was across the plane except his feet. He violated rule to a further extent than 99% of the players and he got busted for it.

 

Well, I didn't think this would be necessary either, but the refs have been calling leaning past the line all year. They seem to look mostly for clear intent to break the plane, i.e. obvious forward momentum before the ball has hit the rim. They won't call it for follow-through, since it doesn't get you a jump on the rebound. They said they'd be cracking down on this during the offseason. The problem, if any, is that they should call it consistently. We can argue semantics all night, but it's pretty clear the kind of plane-breaking the refs have been calling this season.

 

the point is that the clips should have won. they earned it. and the rocks deserved to lose, letting a crappy team like the clips hang in the game for so long. as a rockets fan, i was disgusted at their performance to the point that when james posey fouled miller, i wanted the rocks to lose. we sure deserved to suffer for this crap. after all the doubletalk horsesh*t say all the right things rubbish that came out of cat's and mo's mouth pregame, they come out, get three extra players on the court (the refs), and still barely pull out a tainted win?

lemme go sleep it off.

 

What does getting a jump on the rebound have to do with the first of two free throws? What rebound??