Clipperland dominos

True, there is nothing that says the FULL 15 days have to expire, but knowing the Clippers I think that is likely. I think if you are the team going after the restricted FA it is best to assume the "worst" that 15 days will elapse.

SA can't offer more than any other team. Utah has 20 million under the cap now that Stockton and Malone are gone. And more importantly Indiana has Miller's Bird rights. Either team could sign Miller while SA is waiting around for Brand. I don't necissarily see that it is in Miller's best interest to turn down a decent contract to HOPE that SA will offer a good one. Players usually take the best one they get.

 

I bet if the clipps offered Brand and Odom contracts they will bot probably bite.

 

hey we are straying a little. All I said was Deuce is "overthinking this." The only question is: is the risk of losing Miller worth worrying about when Kandi and Nesho are still available.

The Cavaliers quickly matched Ricky Davis's offer. It took only a few days. They just wanted him to prove his market value.

What happens more often is there is no offer sheet ever (and he just signs with same team), or he gets the offer sheet and it goes through to completion.

and like I asked NIKEstrad: Are you saying you wouldn't sign Brand to an offer sheet if he agreed? For fear of losing Miller??? It makes sense if O'Neal and Kidd were still around, but it makes no sense now, imo. Who cares about Miller vs Kandi vs Nesho vs whoever. They are nearly interchangeable. We are talking about Brand.

GS and Jackson were having a petty war of words. I don't see Sterling doing that. The offer sheet sets the market, and you sign it or not. The only incentive to wait to sign it (short of pissing of the player on purpose) is to look for a replacement player before deciding. Well, there is no replacement for Brand.

<b>You guys are nervous ninnies, to worry about losing out on Miller.</b>

<b>Go for the gusto...make the Clipper match</b> Brand is an absolute stud.

 

btw Achebe: I question whether it is legal to threaten to match as a means to scare away a market offer.

<blockquote><hr>Section 1. No Collusion.

Subject to Section 2 below, no NBA Team, its employees or agents, will enter into any contracts, combinations or conspiracies, <b>express or implied</b>, with the NBA or any other NBA Team, their employees or agents: (a) to negotiate or not to negotiate with any Veteran or Rookie; (b) to submit or not to submit an Offer Sheet to any Restricted Free Agent; (c) to offer or not to offer a Player Contract to any Free Agent; (d) <b>to exercise or not to exercise a Right of First Refusa</b>l; or (e) concerning the terms or conditions of employment offered to any Veteran or Rookie. <hr></blockquote>

I know is meant more for quid pro quo situations...but, given that article, are you really saying Sterling said publically that he will match any offer, so don't bother negotiating with my player??

 

The Clipps are long on offensive talent, short on fundamentals and defense. I would be looking at guys like Snow, Williams, and similar to bring in new priorities. Dunleavy is a good choice for them, not great, but decent.

 

Cleveland matched Ricky Davis immediately. They just wanted him to prove his market value. see my post to Achebe.

But I didn't mean to say your were wrong there...you make perfect sense, especially when locking up an MLE for a possible 15days....my point was simply to say you were overthinking this by worrying about losing out on Miller, especially when Kandi and Nesho are still on the board.

look at it this way, if Rashard Lewis was available when we had cap room, would you have been afraid to sign an offer sheet with him, for fear of Seattle matching and making you wait 15 days.

 

He plans on deciding Tuesday. After Kandi's meeting w/ Denver he meets with the Clippers... to get something done soon too.

The Clippers are desperate to keep Brand. To prove their intent to be competitive... I wonder what steps they'll take...

When I don't think that oeilpere was high on morphine and meant puppyland instead of pussyland, I assume he meant that Cuttino is going to LA. He replaces Maggette, unfortunately solidifies the Clippers, but maybe suggests to Brand that they'll be much more serious about being competitive. Then again, I think oeilpere has a ratio of 1 to 96 on his trade rumors... so we'll see where Cuttino is in October.

Incidentally, Cleveland waited 5 days to take Davis. 08/16 to 08/21.

 

He's 1 for 1 in regards to Cuttino, hehe. Ask Cuttino himself, if Lamar's running the break for the Rockets, and Steve's on the wing, it's over.

heypartner-I don't think we're that far off...I'm saying an offer sheet could end up costing them Miller, who IMO, is the best of the 2nd tier centers (Kandi, Rasho). I agree completely that you have to make the offer sheet to Brand and more or less force the Clippers hand, and Kandi and Rasho become consolation* prizes. Kandi and Rasho aren't too far off from Miller which makes a chance at an offer sheet for Brand a no brainer.

Sterling hasn't made any public comments, but he's already reportedly offered a 5 year max deal, so the assumption is he would be alright with a 6th. I think Brand will be a Clipper, and I think either Maggette or Odom will be joining him.

*- denotes Brand as consolation for PJ Brown, who was consolation for Zo, who was consolation for O'Neal, who was consolation for Kidd. I almost feel sorry for them- they win a championship, and they can't get a single major free agent to sign with them?

 

nope...the offer sheet was signed on the 16th (a Friday),
Cleveland received the official contract on the Tuesday the 20th, <b>and signed it immediately.</b>
It was reported on Wed the 21st.

so there...

i also believe popeye meant puppyland.

 

Fair enough.

Btw, I just noticed that Pop went to Slovenia on July 1, per San Antonio Express News (or whatever their paper is called) to talk to Rasho immediately.

Never underestimate Timmy's willingness to pus out on playing the 5.

 

HP, reread my inital post. I wasn't JUST saying they might lose out on Miller, I said they might lose out on Miller AND Rasho AND Kandi etc etc. All of them.

If I was the Rockets and Lewis was available hell yes I would offer him a contract. Because while he would be nice to have we don't need him per se. This would satisfy condition #1 (see below). San Antonio is not in this scenario because they NEED to fill a void! They don't have the luxary of resting on their laurels. They NEED to fill a spot. Not just have someone that would be nice to have.

I think it is only wise to offer money to a restricted FA if either
1) That is the ONLY player you are looking at. If you get him, great. If not then oh well.
2) You honestly feet a team won't match the offer (i.e Andre Miller likely gone to Denver for 9 million a season, no way Clippers match that offer).

 

FYI, thought this was appropriate. This is ESPN Insider's Clipperland take for today. Interesting stuff.

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Ford: The Great Clippers Exodus
By Chad Ford NBA Insider

Two weeks ago, we wrote that Clippers owner Donald Sterling would be the real power broker this summer. With five prominent free agents up for bid, four of them restricted, the rest of the league huddled in war rooms wondering the same things -- will the Clips match?

For the past two weeks, the Clippers have told every NBA team flirting with Elton Brand, Corey Maggette or Lamar Odom that they will, indeed, match any offer. They've also been beating the war drums of late that they'll hold onto Andre Miller, even with young point guards Marko Jaric and Keyon Dooling in place. And as for Michael Olowokandi, the team's only unrestricted free agent, they may hold the cards to his future as well -- via sign-and-trade.

Now, with the signing period just two days away, several owners are ready to call Sterling's bluff.

Over the weekend, Miller and Maggette both received offers from both the Nuggets and Jazz. But in a bizarre twist, Miller is set to sign a six-year, $55 million offer sheet with Denver, and Maggette is ready to sign a six-year deal with the Jazz for something above the $42 million the Nuggets offered him on Friday.

Huh? Wasn't Utah the No. 1 team on Miller's list? And didn't Maggette claim the Nuggets were his top choice?

Here's how things went down this weekend:

On Friday, the Nuggets put a six-year, $42 million offer on the table for Maggette, two league sources told Insider. Both sources, who were familiar with Maggette's thinking, expected his to agree to Denver's offer sheet for three big reasons: 1) The Nuggets were offering more money than any other team; 2) Maggette preferred playing for Denver over the Jazz; and 3) he told them he would.

Visits to both teams had gone well, but Maggette felt more comfortable with his role on the team and the talent that would surround him in Denver -- there was a clear opening at shooting guard, and he'd get to play with Carmelo Anthony and either Miller or Gilbert Arenas.


However, things began to change on Saturday, after Miller decided to commit to the Nuggets, as well.

The writing was on the wall on Friday, one source within the Jazz told Insider. During a meeting with Jazz owner Larry Miller on Thursday, Andre Miller's agent, Lon Babby, repeatedly voiced concerns about his client having to fill the shoes of John Stockton. Babby was afraid that, with Stockton and Karl Malone both gone, the Jazz would inevitably lose a step or two this season. After the nightmare season Andre Miller endured in L.A., Babby didn't want his client to take the brunt of the criticism if the Jazz missed the playoffs for the first time in two decades.

The money between the two clubs was the same, and ultimately the point guard felt Denver might be a better situation for him. When he reportedly committed to the Nuggets on Saturday, the Jazz were stunned. Owner Miller, along with many in the organization, felt ultimately the Clippers' guard would choose Utah over Denver.

When he didn't, according to several sources, the Jazz went into damage-control mode, offering Maggette a deal on Saturday that trumped the money in the Nuggets' offer. Maggette's agent, Rob Pelinka, told the Rocky Mountain News on Sunday evening that Maggette would accept the Jazz's offer.

Maggette, however, still seemed on the fence. He also spoke with the Rocky Mountain News on Sunday and confirmed Insider's report on Friday that he had, indeed, received an offer from the Nuggets. As to which one he'll actually sign, he wouldn't commit.

"I'll know that probably Wednesday," Maggette said. "As of now, nothing is finalized. ... Denver is a really nice place, and I'd love to play there, but I'm keeping my options open until Wednesday."

However, as of Sunday night, it appeared unlikely the Nuggets would be able to match Utah's offer. Denver had thought it would be able to sign Maggette, a point guard such as Miller or Gilbert Arenas, and Olowokandi, who is scheduled to meet with Nuggets owner Stan Kronke today. Olowokandi is expecting an offer.

"I would think there would be an offer if I'm meeting with the owner," said Olowokandi, who has indicated the Nuggets are at the top of his list. "I would be surprised if there isn't an offer."

Their thinking was that if they paid Miller a starting salary of $7 million a season and Maggette a starting salary of $5.5 a season, they would have had been able to offer Olowokandi a deal starting at $6 million a season (assuming a $42 million salary cap). However, with the Jazz upping the ante for Maggette, the Nuggets likely will have to choose whether to remain in the bidding for him or give up and focus only on Olowokandi.

If the Nuggets don't come through, the Grizzlies reportedly are ready to work out a sign-and-trade that would bring Olowokandi to Memphis in return for Wesley Person (in the last year of his deal) and a future first-round pick.


And let's not forget about Brand. The Jazz have told him they'll give him a six-year max deal if he wants it. But the Spurs spent a big chunk of the weekend negotiating with Brand's agent, David Falk, about a deal that would bring Brand to San Antonio.

All of the weekend wrangling will leave Sterling & Co. with some tough decisions. Miller, Maggette and Brand can't sign until Wednesday, at which point Clippers will have 15 days to match.

No one knows what they'll do. But because of minimum payroll requirements, they have to spend at least $31.5 million on players' salaries (assuming that the salary cap is set at $42 million). Right now, L.A. has only six players under contract and $11.7 million in committed salaries. They're going to have to make up the additional $20 million somehow. Even if the team paid Brand's maximum salary, it would still have roughly $10 million in cap space to fill.

That's why many believe that, ultimately, the team will match any offer Brand, Maggette or Odom. Under the rules, they have to pay someone.


Odom, who appears unlikely to get an offer worth signing, likely will accept the Clippers' $4.7 million one-year qualifying offer rather than risk the team matching a longer-term offer sheet from another club.

It also explains why Maggette had to stiff-arm his first choice, the Nuggets, for his second choice, the Jazz. There was a strong likelihood that the Clippers would've matched a Maggette offer that started at $5.5 million a season. Maggette is hoping the extra money the Jazz are offering will be enough to scare L.A. away. Even at the bigger number, though, the Clips still might match.

The mandatory minimum payroll also why a sign-and-trade with the Grizzlies makes some sense. If they have to spend money anyway, shipping Olowokandi to the Grizzlies and taking back a one-year deal worth $7.7 million (Wesley Person) helps them get to the minimum salary without making a long-term commitment.

But let's not get too carried away. If Brand, Miller, Maggette are all matched, Sterling would be committing $180 million in guaranteed money to three players. Regardless of minimum payrolls and lots of chest thumping out in L.A., we'll believe that when we see it.

Around the league

Would the Clippers bite?

* The Spurs are still stuck in limbo waiting on another high-profile free agent. The team has spent hours trying to figure out how to lure Elton Brand to San Antonio without the Clippers matching, but it won't be easy.

Several sources inside the Spurs feel strongly that the Clippers will match any offer. They've played with creative contracts that would discourage L.A. from matching -- but right now nothing seems to have clicked.

The Spurs ultimately may just have to take a pass on Brand. They've already been burned once this summer. While the team flirted with Jason Kidd, it lost out on the chance to sign P.J. Brown. After Kidd told the Spurs he was staying in New Jersey, they quickly tried to piece together a deal for Brown. But by the time they got it to him on Friday, it was too late. Brown had spent several days talking with the Hornets and had basically agreed to re-sign with them by the time the Spurs came up with their offer.

The Spurs also risk losing Rasho Nesterovic. As Insider first reported last week, the team is high on him, and Nesterovic would prefer to play in San Antonio, all things being equal. The T-Wolves have already made him a big-time offer, and he probably would be unwilling to wait the 15 days it would take to see if the Clips matched the offer for Brand.

Right now it doesn't appear the Spurs will take that risk. Nesterovic's agent, Bill Duffy, said that his client likely will make his decision on Tuesday.

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