Clinton's Reality Crumbling

Now you are Indian again?

Actually, I knew you told the truth first time, that you are an Indian decent. One could see between the lines of lots of your posts. But it buffles me that you would lie about it, to save face for an Internet debate. I thought you were proud of your background, then why lie about it?

But it's still not about whether you are Indian or not, it's also not about how you spin it. Even if you are Indian, that doesn't mean every other Indian SHOULD NOT be offended to be called a monkey. Even if some of the community leaders you knew, or your family, weren't offended, other Indians may still feel offended. Even you as an Indian, tried so hard to defend some racial slur, that doesn't mean other non-Indians can not express their concern or critique towards that kind of action. Clinton said it the other day, that democracy is about minority rights and individual rights.

BTW, to defend racial slur to make a point that racism is bad and existing everywhere, that's weird. I don't know where you pull your logic from.

Someone is ok to be called a monkey, but some are not. Can't you just accept the fact that not everyone is the same?

 

I think newyorker is just jealous of the young indian american man who was called macaca.. he wishes it was him and get all this attention for himself..

yeah call me a macaca I love it..

 

I'm very proud of my background, I just don't want personal things about myself to be too well known on here. Perhaps I'm just paranoid about losing annoymity. I'm not saying I'm super important, just that I rather remain unidentifiable for personal reasons.

My point is that the harshish reactions are not coming from the Indian American community, but rather liberal groups.

Let me ask you this....

Why is it that when the Indian American community takes offense to Apu on the simpsons, no one says anything....but when the community has a more muted reaction to George Allen, the media goes nuts? Clearly one reason is that politics are involved.....but I'd like to see people address some of the larger issues instead of a remark that might be offensive to a few.

By the way, I don't see his comment as racist, neither do many Indians, and neither do many overall. So when you call him a racist, remember that's not absolute. I am witholding judgement myself.

 

I AM actually Indian, so I'll give you a slightly different perspective. No one in this country knows what "maccaca" means because its a common insult in Europe. My cousin, who lived in France for 3 years, is familiar with the term and in fact was called that several times. (France has serious racism/xenophobia issues to deal with) And he was pretty ticked off when he heard the term.

As you say, we should look at INTENT. If I go to Africa and call someone there by the N-word, they'll have no idea what it means. But if I said it in a racist and derogatory manner, then it still means something. The term IS an insult in Europe and while reaction here is muted, its only because people don't know what it means. That DOES NOT change the intent of Allen or his underlying and subconcious thinking. Plus Allen has a history of questionable things concerning race issues that he has said and done so its harder to give him the benefit of the doubt.

What he said wasn't right and there's no justification to say it. If I go call someone in Africa by the N-word, I doubt you could think of any legitimate use of the word. It is a loaded gun when "maccaca" is uttered in some parts of the world and Allen knows that. Words like that just dont slip out on accident.

 

I think you take the simpsons way too seriously..

for me, the difference is one is just a tv show while the other is a US senator who plans to run for president.. would you want the president to be a racist/openly and publicly saying racist slurs/and secretly hiding confederate flags and nooses?

 

So you're convinced he knew? Even if he did...why would someone who has backed the Indian visa program and supported the nuclear treaty between the U.S. and India (staunchly opposed by most democrats), yell a racial slur to an indian? And why would he then meet with Indian community leaders afterwards to discuss it?

You see, to me.....actions always speak louder then words. And I find it really annoying that the people who decry one comment do nothing or actually act in a way that's worse. I'd rather have a guy who puts his foot in his mouth and says stupid things but actually does more for racial betterment then someone who just talks the talk. George Allen was set to receive a reward (thurogood marshall) before his comment - clearly his ACTIONS were the right ones even if the wrong WORD was uttered.

Do you judge someone by word or deed?

 

One reinforces a sterotype of South Asians as 7-11 owners and fosters discrimination, while the other one actually does something for Indian Americans.

Hmmmm.......I take the senator.

 

how can being an owner of a business foster discrimation?

hey if you'd rather be called macaca than a business owner because a busness owner is very degrading and being called macaca is okay because you owe him one then go right ahead..

 

its pretty basic around here

you spin a tall tale adn get busted for it

you will NEVER live it down

wether or not you give a **** about your rep...it is how you are measured in this community...once your cred is gone...noone will ever take you seriously ever again...which makes it hard to have a real conversation.

 

R2K pretty much summed it up.

I spent most of a summer in India in the '60's, and the majority of it in southern India. I saw one hell of a lot of discrimination by Indians against Indians because of caste. It still goes on there, although I certainly hope it's improved. What I can't understand is why someone would play games with their ethnic/racial/religious background. It's one thing to just not mention it. Groovy. But to make a game out of it, get caught out, and then try to laugh it off, followed by, "I'm a victim!" seems more than a bit strange.

Man, you shouldn't be at all surprised at how people reacted to that, especially since you've been here for 4 years. I don't know if you even realize it, but you come off as being a bit ashamed of who you are. That's absurd, sure, but that was an impression I got from reading all this as it played out the last few weeks.

You should be proud of who and what you are, whatever that may be. A lot of games are played around here, but that's a game you shouldn't play. Respect is hard to earn here, and easy to lose, as R2K pointed out. We all have very passionate discussions, arguments, knock down, drag out battles... still, I respect my most opponents on the "other side," no matter how much they drive me crazy. (I'm looking at you, giddy and basso!) I don't respect people that play the kind of games you were playing. Trader_J and texxx played that way, but at least they could be funny. Develop a sense of humor! Maybe that'll help.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

That's your choice, and your loss. That's beyond my control. Like I said, I could easily change my handle, but I'm not....because at the end of the day, I am who I am. And how you chose to judge me is up to you...that's your right. But at the same time, I don't need to have my race brought up at every instance...it's just not productive. So take all my posts with a grain of salt....my credibility may be for naught....and you have every right to do that. But why bring that up? What's the point? Just go about your business then....you have every right to right off what I say - as does anyone here.

But you know what? Who cares? In the big scheme of things? Who cares? I'm just text on a screen....nothing more. You'll never know who I am, you'll never care. We'll never grab a beer together...and you'll never know what I've done in life or accomplished or what awards I've received or where I go. You won't. You won't know what articles I've written, or what influence I'll have if any. And vice versa. It's just the way it is. So it's ok if you don't attach any credibility to me now....

Why even bother bringing that up?

 

The Simpsons is mostly satire. Complaints about a show like that are as ridiculous as the extremist PC crowd you claim you're agains. The problem isn't the Simpsons but rather the limited roles Indian American characters play in the media.

For one thing, no **** politics are involved for this person at this time of the year. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth or accounts of Dubya's crack induced haze didn't coincidentally appear out nowhere.

Anyways, Allen mocked a person based on his external characteristics, and that person was rightly offended. A better person could've a) handled his gaffe more gracefully or b) never let it became an issue.

A major beef the offended party is focused upon is that if it was only a matter of politics for Allen, then he could've ribbed Mr. Macaca much differently while retaining the point of his speech.

Black, Indian, or Jew, you don't have to lie about it on an internet forum. Your lies just expose that race really does matter to you, despite whatever greater point you were trying to get out about racial commentary in the US .

 

Why bother. It's just the rantings of a coke w**** hermaphrodite.

 

From Tammy Bruce to Ann Coulter.

Good stuff.

 

First of all that wasn't the question. Coulter is leaving out half the question which went on to mention Somalia the attack on the Kobar tours in Saudi Arabia, The attack on the 2 embassies in Africa and the attack on the USS Cole. So already Coulter isn't being honest about the 'simple' question.

Clinton spoke with passion but it was hardly a fit. He was rather controlled and spoke with force. And what the hell is she trying to say about Muslims? Notice she doesn't say radical Muslims, she mentions Muslims in general, as if they all over react all the time.

Actually Coulter has it dead wrong here. I don't know if it is a lie, or if she just isn't smart enough. It happens often with her. It was actually a national security directive.

Again the statements by the GOP who wanted CLinton to withdraw immediately and Clinton's address on why the U.S. needed to stay was already posted. Either Coulter is totally ignorant, or she is lying.

Now she adds meaningless insult to her lies. Why do you read or post this horible person?

Ann Coulter is a liar, or totally ignorant. Probably both.

 

I need to make that my new sig.

 

When did this turn into a thread about Indian American stereotypes?

Not that I mind since I have read through it or posted and it is more interesting than blaming Clinton for 9/11.