As we've discussed before, I think "virtually no chance" is a slight stretch. But I agree with the premise -- I get the same feeling that you do.
She is setting the stage for a hail-mary coup of the entire democratic process, because she knows a) Superdels are her only shot b) her only shot would essentially torch the democratic party. If the winner of the popular vote / states / delegates is not on the ticket, it will not be a legitimate, democratically-elected ticket. It might adhere to the wording and rules of the process, but it would urinate on the spirit of the process. The only possible positive outcome for her at this point is to overturn the pledged delegates, and thereby make that asterisk on W.'s 2000 election look like a gnat by comparison - at this point, she damn well knows it. She can conceivably win, but she would emerge as resented, hated, and the very thing this country was designed NOT to have - some BS dynasty in which a selected few maintain power against the will of the people. To avoid that scenario - which will not occur, even the democrats are not that stupid (he said hopefully...) - she is telegraphing her strategy and desperation. Her only only hope would be to corner Obama into accepting the VP slot. She is preparing for a scenario where says "Help me Obi Wan, Kenobi, you're my only hope". Princess Leia bullcrap. "He would be a great VP" = essentially, "I am f****** and I know it." It's that weird dance people do when they are hopelessly in check but not checkmated, hoping to prolong the game for a while in hopes their opponent will do something very very stupid. Or, until you decide to turn the board over and declare yourself the victor. Someone needs to put this primary out of its misery so Obama can move on. It's over. It's tedious. It's been a nice conference finals and all, but its time to bring on the Eastern Conference.
I am aware of that - I am saying that her presidential campaign would be encumbered by far more The Obama Asterisk than Bush's presidency has been by The Gore Asterisk.
McCain's case was unique because Cheney wasn't ever going to run. If Obama wins in 2008, she can't run in 2012, and then his VP is automatically the party favorite in 2016. She loses control of her ability to run again. Obviously, if he loses, it opens the door for her, but otherwise, she could be done. If she's VP, it makes her the favorite for the nomination in 2016.
people have developed a dislike of clinton long before obama came around. so whether she wins the nomination "fairly" or not doesnt play a factor on how people will view her presidential asperations. if clinton loses, people will still dislike her... if clinton wins, the dems lose a few independent votes that obama would have captured. and people will still dislike her... even if clinton wins the nomination and goes on to win the whitehouse... and also fix the ecomony, fix the education system, fix the health care system, and fix the situation in the middle east... people will still dislike her... some people just have that "je ne se qua"
Maybe its been said somewhere in the last 7 pages, but I think it's shrewd. For voters who like Obama, Clinton might help ease them ove to her side if they believe they aren't really giving up Obama by voting against him. In the end, though, I don't see how either could stomach being VP to the other.
Actually I think it's geared more towards the superdels. It will alleviate the guilt of going against the will of the dem electorate if they can justify putting him on the ticket as VP
Obama: Don't Assume I'll Take VP Slot By CHARLES BABINGTON, AP 27 minutes ago // COLUMBUS, Miss. — Democrat Barack Obama ridiculed the idea of being Hillary Rodham Clinton's running mate Monday, saying voters must choose between the two for the top spot on the fall ticket. The Illinois senator used his first public appearance of the week to knock down the notion that he might accept the party's vice presidential nomination. He noted that he has won more states, votes and delegates than Clinton so far. "I don't know how somebody who is in second place is offering the vice presidency to the person who is first place," Obama said, drawing cheers and a long standing ovation from about 1,700 people in Columbus, Miss. Saying he wanted to be "absolutely clear," he added: "I don't want anybody here thinking that somehow, 'Well, you know, maybe I can get both.' Don't think that way. You have to make a choice in this election." "I am not running for vice president," Obama said. "I am running for president of the United States of America." Obama aides said Clinton's recent hints that she might welcome him as her vice presidential candidate appeared meant to diminish him and to attract undecided voters in the remaining primary states by suggesting they can have a "dream ticket." Obama had never suggested he might accept a second spot on the ticket. But until Monday he had not ridiculed the notion so directly, even if he did completely rule it out in Shermanesque terms. He told the audience that it made no sense for Clinton to suggest he is not ready to be president and then hint that she might hand him the job that could make him president at a moment's notice. "If I'm not ready, how is it that you think I should be such a great vice president?" he said, as the crowd laughed and cheered loudly. Mississippi holds it primary Tuesday, the last contest before the Pennsylvania primary six weeks from now. Clinton and her husband, the former president, had suggested recently that a Clinton-Obama ticket would be popular and formidable against Republican Sen. John McCain in November. Many political activists discounted the notion all along. They noted that the two senators lack a warm relationship and, more important, that Obama would be ill-served by hinting he might accept the vice presidential slot when he holds the lead in delegates and hopes to win the presidential nomination. In the latest Associated Press count, Obama leads Clinton, 1,578-1,472. He has won 28 contests to her 17. Moreover, many insiders feel the ambitious and fast-rising Obama would chafe in the vice president's job, especially in a White House where Bill Clinton would almost surely play a huge advisory role. Still, the notion of a Clinton-Obama ticket has received ample discussion in recent days on cable TV news shows and newspapers such as New York City's tabloids. In an interview Friday in Wyoming with KTVQ-TV, a CBS affiliate based in Billings, Mont., Obama's comments were somewhat mixed. "Well, you know, I think it's premature," he said of accepting the second spot on the ticket. "You won't see me as a vice presidential candidate." His Monday remarks were more detailed, pointed and humorous. Of course, they will not completely end the speculation. Presidential candidates routinely disavow any interest in the vice presidential spot. But some, including John Edwards and Al Gore, change their minds when they fall short of their top goal. Copyright 2008 The Associated Press.
I disagree with this. It's not about liking Hillary Clinton or not - I actually am okay with her in alot of ways on a lot of issues - it is whether or not she would be so myopic about winning that she would fight for / accept the party nomination at the expense of someone who won more votes, states and pledged delegates. I am not saying it as definitively as Batman, but in that case - overturning the pledged delegates - I think I do not vote for her.
Except the system is set up for superdeligates. This wasn't Clinton's doing. It's a goofy system, I agree....but there is no 'overturning' or 'going against the people' at work here. If the nonpledged deligates have to vote for the leader in pledged....or popular vote...they effectively don't have a vote. They'd just serve to assure the pledged leader the nomination. In a three candidate race (which this isn't), the leader would automatically win...even if the other two, in combination, had more deligates. They cannot vote 'proportionately' unless you're going to designate who votes for whom. Again...crazy. I don't know the wisdom behind having these deligates. Or who chose them and why. I assume there's some logic there, and that they were chosen, in part, for their judgement. As long as they're part of the system, they should be allowed to use that judgement. And since they are not 'pledged' they can change their support. So team Obama should be working them. And I expect he is. I doubt this will be an issue. But if it is...it's not some underhanded Clinton scheme. And if the superDeligates is somehow antidemocratic....get rid of them.
The issue is not winning over superdelegates - its her campaign's recent rumblings that they may try to turn pledged delegates. Her campaign has mentioned the possibility twice in the past three weeks and then gone back and said they'd never do that the next day each time.
My bad. I thought it was the usual complaint about super deligates 'overturning' pledged. I agree that she should leave the pledged alone. There's lots about her campaign lately I've disagreed with.
