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[Climate Change] Lake Erie up to 60% Covered in Ice

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Cohete Rojo, Jan 13, 2015.

  1. bongman

    bongman Member

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    HBO's Vice just showed episode 1 of season 3. This is a short clip of who is behind the deniers. http://youtu.be/nVtmzvHedD4. No surprise Koch and energy companies are behind it and the people who were successful for the PR work for the tobacco industry are now being used by the deniers.

    On the show, they will also point out that the deniers will use "there is a lot more ice covering the planet". Although true, what is lost is that sea ice is not the same as land ice as the latter could be miles/kilometers thick.
     
  2. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    We are literally burning time. I see no way out.
     
  3. FV Santiago

    FV Santiago Member

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    Will all the global warmists please do us a huge favor and tell us exactly when the earth will burn up and become uninhabitable? I know all of your previous predictions have been proven to be wrong, but no doubt this prediction will be accurate. Also, please tell us how much our taxes need to be raised by in order to ward off this urgent crisis.
     
  4. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    [​IMG]

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    #404 Dubious, Mar 10, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Are straw-man fallacies the only ground you stand on in your refutations? No, scientists don't believe that climate change will make the planet uninhabitable. Far worse natural disasters have occurred on this planet yet it was never "uninhabitable" since life began on Earth.
     
  6. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    It's good to see that the AGW community is no longer denying the pause. For me, the article reinforces the idea that non-anthropogenic forcings can affect climate in major ways, more so than does the article cast doubt on the idea of AGW (though I couldn't blame anyone for seeing it both ways). Though, I am a bit curious as to why the researchers decided to use a PDO (Pacific Decadal Occilation) index and not an ENSO (El Nino Southern Osciliation) index, because I remembered coming across this from the NOAA when I was looking into the 2014-2015 El Nino:


    I haven't really put forth an alternative explanation for the climate change over the time period (1950-present) that the IPCC attributes toward AGW. So I'll take a moment to offer up an idea that may explain the cause for the global warming over that time period. When looking at the surface temperature record, I see that temperatures did not begin to noticeably rise unitl about the late 1970's. If you take a look at the above ENSO index, I think you will also see a general increase in the ENSO index (above) starting in that same time period - in the late 1970's. The rise in surface temperatures ends rather abruptly around 2000 - a few years after the 1997/1998 El Nino (the strongest on record). Since that time when surface temperatures ceased to rise, there has been a kind of balance in the ENSO index between El Ninos and La Ninas. To me, it looks like the IPCC is right - there is very little understood about ocean cycles.

    But, going back to the article you posted, I took issue with the following graph.

    [​IMG]


    Couldn't the author have extended the negative y-axis of the chart? I mean, the top y-axis goes to 5 and the bottom y-axis goes to 3, but clearly the negative data points extend further on an absolute basis. That kind of visual presentation might give some people the impression that the negative values are much greater than they otherwise would be if the chart extended the negative y-axis to 5 or 6. It kind of reminds me of some of the tactics used by the tobacco industry.:grin:
     
  7. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Extreme Feb 2015. The Eastern US was hammered by cold while the rest of the world was warm to very warm. Weather seems to be getting "stuck" in places and we are seeing longer persistence pattern of extreme weather.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Koch industries basically admit they aren't funding science but speech in efforts to defeat any kind of sense that fossil fuels are warming the planet

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...stries-refuses-senators-climate-investigation

     
  9. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Exposes BP which talks a big game on addressing global warming as a fraud - they do that for their brand but behind everyone's back are giving money to climate skeptics. Also these guys are being appointed head of environmental committees and just are voices for the oil industry. Scary.

    Climate-sceptic US senator given funds by BP political action committee

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...cian-jim-inhofe-bp-political-action-committee
     
  10. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    Please don't use this forum to post your anti-science Koch brother conspiracy theories. rockets judoka already has a forum for that.

    Back on topic, I'm surprised no one wants to discuss the coincidence of the El Niño and the hottest year on record.
     
  11. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Crater Lake now has less snow than the average amount measured on June 30.
     
  12. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Conspiracy theory? They admit to being anti-climate. Where is the conspiracy if it's out in the open!
     
  13. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    Who has actually cited any Koch brother related climate references in this thread besides txtony and yourself? It's like some kind of false attribution. Can you actually debate against the argument I've posted or is citing Koch brother conspiracy theories all that remain?
     
  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Since several posters have brought up the North Eastern Winter as an argument global warming. This actually might be an affect of climate change as one of the predictions of climate change is that a warming environment causing ice sheets to melt would decrease the salinity of the Atlantic Ocean causing a slow down in the Gulf Stream bringing warm water to the north Atlantic. This could explain why the last two winters in the Northeastern US have had record cold while overall the planet has had record warmth.

    My own personal comment is that this is interesting but as I've said before I wouldn't consider individual weather phenomena to be indicative for or against global warming but if this pattern persist it is definitely something to consider as more evidence.

    http://ripr.org/post/atlantic-ocean-currents-slowing-down-due-climate-change

    Atlantic Ocean Currents Slowing Down Due To Climate Change

    The average global temperature has gone up over the last century due to the phenomenon known as global warming. But one region in the north Atlantic has seen the opposite trend. A Roger Williams University researcher explains this anomaly in a recent paper published in Nature Climate Change.

    (A video by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration of the what's known as the Great Ocean Conveyer Belt, or the Thermohaline Circulation.)

    Temperatures are cooling down in the north Atlantic because of a slowdown in ocean currents, which drive weather patterns. That’s the finding of a research team including Scott Rutherford of Roger Williams University. Rutherford said the changes are linked to climate change. A contributor to this slowdown is the melting of the Greenland ice sheet. He said there may also be a link to the recent cold winter in the Northeast.

    “That's a maybe [to the question], ‘Are these cold winters and what we are seeing in the slowdown linked?’ Because we do see the temperature pattern of the slowdown reappear this past winter, and we haven't seen it in several winters before that,” said Rutherford.

    Rutherford said the kinds of extreme weather events that we view now as very unusual may become usual in the future.

    Rutherford said the melting of the Greenland ice sheet is also diluting the Gulf Stream, a salty warm current in the Atlantic Ocean that originates in the Gulf of Mexico. He is calling for more research into the impact this slowdown will have to ecosystems and sea levels.

    He said this kind of ocean circulation slowdown is unprecedented in the past one thousand years.
     
  15. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    Yeah, I'm just not sure why all climate change must be a result of human activity. The NASA linked study that showed there may be more megadroughts in California didn't even seem to mention, let alone address, the issue of El Niño. Seems odd considering that La Niñas are associated with a lack of rain in California, and have a cooling affect across the Pacific and the rest of the world.

    Yeah, I'm still skeptical of any claim about AGW being the greatest force behind climate change if the NOAA says things like "we cannot identify the "fingerprint" of global warming".
     
  16. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    No you are a climate skeptic because it doesn't meet your political agenda and your brain can't accept reality.
     
  17. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    Please cite the posts indicating my political agenda or unacceptance. You keep insinuating I am a Koch brother conspiracy theorists of some kind or another. I think it is time you made your case with logic, reason and evidence rather than emotion.
     
  18. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    I'm just going to reiterate what the NOAA says: the jury is still out. We've still got a strong ENSO occuring. It's interesting, because in the past 15 years there has been a 30 ppm increase in CO2 but temperatures have not broken the record high 1998 annual average.
    [​IMG]

    And in case anyone was wondering: here we are in May and there is still going to be ice on the great lakes.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    People have explained this to you a million times. Climate change does not occur on the order of 15 years BECAUSE OF THINGS LIKE EL NINO which are on the same scale.
     
  20. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Fire season outlook:

    [​IMG]
     

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