gr8-1 is simply saying what most of the haters really feel. They want this team to fail so they can b**** on an internet message board about the organization. It's sad, frankly, but at least gr8-1 can admit it.
I hope he goes to the Rangers. The Astros botched this big time and I would love for these so called "fans" defending the Astros' handling of this to be shown wrong.
How exactly did they botch it? His decision wouldn't come until February at the earliest He gave no indication either way and told the Astros not to pressure him Rather than tie up money and resources in one player that might not come back, the team decided to focus on other areas. Clemen's made it clear he wouldn't come back unless the team made moves to improve, which they've done Clemen's UNDERSTOOD the Astros decision to not offer him arbitration By not offering him arbitration, the door is still open for him to return in May, a month after the season starts therefore ensuring he won't break down in September when we need him most
Do you believe the Astros would be better by having Clemens? If so, and you want him to go the Rangers, as you've said above, it seems you're the not the Astros fan you claim to be, because clearly you're not interested in the Astros being the best possible team. The best and most likely outcome at this point in time will be Roger playing for the Astros in May, for much less than the $20MM he would have gotten through arbitration. Why a true Astros fan would want the Astros to overpay for a 43 year old player who struggled at the end of last season and isn't even sure he has the motivation to play anymore is beyond me. But the above makes it clear you're not the Astros fan you claim to be.
Great post Junkyard. Nothing was botched, the Astros did what I was hoping they would. Now if he comes back to us in May in game shape, then look out NL.
ignorant. Oh I don't know, maybe because he led the league in ERA last year and was our best pitcher?
There is a lot of wishful thinking up here about Clemens. Hicks is trying to run the old UT scmooze on him because the Rangers desperately need pitching to go with their hitting. Plus, they need the good PR that he'd bring because they have created an enormous credibility gap with their fan base. I don't put anything past Clemens so he is capable of doing anything. But if he does decide to come play at Arlington he may very come to understand what they mean by the phrase: Be very careful what you ask for...you might just get it. Ameriquest Field in August is not exactly what I'd term a "pitcher's" ballpark.
To JunkyardDwg: I have thoroughly explained in several other threads the reasoning behind the Clemens situation. The Astros didn't want to risk going to arbitration and paying market value for Clemens. That's what it boils down to. Offering Clemens arbitrations would have kept our options open and in no way hindered our offensive improvement which is independent of the Clemens situation (Preston Wilson for 4 mil, yea, the Stros really put that saved money to good use and pulled out all the stops to upgrade the offense ). Major:I am a die-hard Astros fan, and of course I want them to win. That's why I am so upset with the way the Astros have been handling things this offseason. Clemens has been the top pitcher in the game in his two seasons with the Astros. Who said anything about wanting the Astros to overpay? Clemens had a 1.87 ERA last year and a .198 batting average against. Even when injured he pitched and pitched well. There is no reason to expect a significant drop-off. The Astros didn't want to take the chance that they might have to pay Clemens what he is worth. They hoped to get by on the cheap and you and all the other so-called fans are perfectly content to let them do it and weaken the rotation that got us to the World Series. Answer me this, do the Astros make it to the World Series last year without Clemens? If you're honest you will admit the answer is no.
Based on how good you say Clemens is, then it makes no sense that you hope he signs with the Rangers. All 3 of these can't be true: 1. You're an Astros fan. 2. You think Clemens would help our team. 3. You hope Clemens signs with the Rangers to screw the Astros. There's plenty of reason to expect a dropoff. The biggest is that Clemens himself said that after his mother died, his motivation to pitch is simply no longer the same. After his mother died, his ERA also shot up significantly. He also struggled through a number of nagging injuries throughout last season, and was forced to miss time late in the season. No, we don't make the World Series without Clemens last year (although replacing him with $20 million in offense and other pitchers, maybe we do). We also don't likely make it without Everett, Burke, Ensberg, Pettite, Wheeler, Oswalt, Lidge, Berkman, or any number of other players who played key roles. I'm not sure what your point is? Just because someone is important to last year's team doesn't mean you forget the core concept of fiscal sanity and sign them no matter the cost. Every World Series team makes changes - often, they lose core components of their team. That's just the reality of the business. If you start paying people more than you should just because you're desperate to keep your team together, you put together a recipe for long-term failure. The same garbage was said about Beltran & Kent before last season, and we saw the results there. Losing both of them (and Bagwell) had a bigger impact on our offense than losing Clemens would have on our pitching staff. Besides which, it's still not clear Clemens is gone - there's probably a better than 50/50 chance he's an Astro come May 1.
Yeah, he was paid $20MM to do that. Now let's talk about this year's team. How much is he worth to you? $5MM? $15MM? $20M? $30M? And why do you pick that number? Clearly, you've already decided he's worth at least $20MM. What if he asked for $30MM? Do you think he should get it? After all, he could make a great case in front of an arbritrator for that.
I'm OK with having fiscal sense. You're very good at avoiding questions - and being wrong in sports discussions.
That's what it boils down to, huh. So how are you involved in the organization? Seriously, it's not as black and white as you make it seem. And the thing that gets me is even though Clemens himself understood the reasons for their actions, you, can't. And unless you're the Yankees, Mets and Red Sox, the amount of money available to improve the offense is very much dependant on any other moves made on the roster (Clemens included)
Sigh, this has been discussed ad-nauseum. The Astros would have lost nothing by offering arbitration, so you tell me why they didn't (Hint: Didn't want to risk paying market value for the best pitcher in the game). Clemens and his agent understand full well why the Astros didn't offer arbitration ($$$$$). Evidently you don't.
Not to b****. I root for any Texas team, so Roger to Texas doesn't hurt me. I just think Drayton and Astros fans are taking Roger for granted. Maybe I'm wrong though and Roger will sign with the Stros in May.
You've been told ad-nauseum why they didn't. You clearly don't care, so why bother anymore? To you, $20MM of someone else's money is "nothing". To the Astros and fans who understand baseball economics, that's not the case. Besides simple dollars, offering arbitration would have meant that any discussions to trade for Abreu or Tejada (both of which the Astros were involved in) would have likely been dead due to financial constraints. If neither money nor flexibility has no value to you, then there's no point discussing the issue with you.
As a season ticket holder, it really makes me so happy to know that the Astros have raised the prices that I'm paying so that I can have the pleasure of watching Ezekiel Astacio pitch instead of Roger Clemens. I'm really sure they have good plans for all the extra money they'll be saving this year. 20 mil (est) for Clemens, 15.6 mil for Bags. Oh, but they signed Wilson for 4 mil. Wow, they are doing wonders to improve our club.
With the money you spend on season tickets, you could probably do something to help your blood pressure. If you're so disgusted with the owner and team, why in the world would you buy season tickets? That's flat-out dumb.
I renewed early. If I had known then how badly the Astros would botch this offseason, there's a chance I wouldn't have.
