Clemens vs. Bonds- How much of a role will race play?

That's fair....this would be a lot easier study to do if we were talking about Ken Griffey, Jr. instead of Barry Bonds. Everyone loves that guy. Comparing reaction to him and Clemens would be much more interesting.

 

Part of this will also be based on whether Clemens is still playing. If he retires, he'll face the same thing McGwire did - he'll be condemned, but it won't be a big issue because no one is watching him. Similarly, if Bonds retired a few years ago, he wouldn't have faced the same scrutiny he did either.

 

I think there will be a lot more people ready to pounce on Clemens than you realize

 

A seat besides Pete Rose, just outside of Cooperstown?

 

Bonds' personality issues are fairly well documented. Some people may dislike Clements, but not in the same way. The hate for Bonds is the same kind of hate that Bobby Knight generated for years in college basketball. He is rude, distant, unfriendly and doesn't give a rat's ass.

Barry Bonds is a jerk

Bonds is a jerk -- but inspires awe

[rquoter]
He doesn't make it easy. What sets Bonds apart, and drives the haters to distraction, is that he adamantly refuses to pretend he's a nice guy. No smiley face for Barry.

On Sunday, after Bonds had gone hitless in his last 20 at-bats, reporters asked him about his slump. This was his reply: "It's an embarrassment for me to be wearing this (expletive) uniform 'cause of the way I'm playing. There, that's it. Now go away."

All right, any star athlete who was playing badly might get testy with a gaggle of reporters asking stupid questions. But what about the other night, when Bonds was in the field and a foul ball caromed his way? He could have saved the ball girl a long run by walking over and picking it up. Instead, he stood where he was and shook his head no. Not his job.

[/rquoter]

The dislike of Bonds really, really isn't a race issue. If the media treats him worse than others, it is just a reflection of the poor player-media relationship that he personally created. Ever since the early days on the Pirates, before he was a real star, before he was hitting homeruns and people were talking about steroids in baseball, he was known for being a severe jerk.

 

a guy's personality shouldn't play into how he is reported about.

 

I've met Roger Clemens....spent half a day with him. He's a JERK.

 

And everybody should give money to charity and people should be kind to each other, and work out their differences without getting mad or resorting to physical violence.

Unfortunately, that isn't the world we live in. Did you say the same thing about Bobby Knight? Just win baby? Good coach, nobody should talk about his personality? How about when Donald Rumsfeld was acting like a general ass to reporters? Can you honestly say his personality had no effect on you?

schadenfreude

 

It will play ZERO factor, I am sick of race always being an issue

 

I have some freinds who live nex to him in conroe and I am always hearing stories about how big of an ******* he is. I hear his wife is a b**** too

 

I would say that perhaps the difference is that he puts on the happy face and doesn't flaunt his jerkiness. He smiles and acts nice when the cameras are on.

Kirby Puckett appears to have been an all-time great jerk, but because he played the 'nice guy' game with the public, he was known as one of the good guys right up until his death and the stories came out.

 

I'm a big fan of bobby knight, don't make assumptions, i thinks he's hands down the greatest college coach ever.

but as far as bobby knight is concerned, you can't help but report his negative press, that's news worthy when he makes the comments he makes in press conferences or throws a chair on the court or gets into a fight with his AD at a buffet.

in the case of bonds, the media makes the news. "he was a jerk, he didn't give me an interview"

see the difference?

 

From what I've heard Bonds treats the media like ***** but not the fans he gets in contact with....the fans in SanFran love te guy....

Most of us don't know him on a personal level yet call him out as if he's made fun of our parents....grow up....

Fact is BOTH are cheaters and that's how the story should be told, and neither should get into the Hall.....

 

Interesting phrasing there.

Anyway, there is the jerk argument, but there's also the winner argument. Clemens has played in and won more big games than Bonds. He gets an extra dose of aura for that. Sort of like how Laimbeer and Mahorn went from thugs to winners. The fascination with winners, both from the media and society, has to factor into this comparison.

Also, the Home Run record is the quintessential American sports record, in no small part because it's accomplished with a long, hard phallic object... and when that big stick is wielded by an arrogant black man, well... let's just say we as a country still have some issues.

 

Well, Bonds took it over from another black man, Hank Aaron, so not sure you have a point...

 

And Clemens had it written into his contract (and took advantage of) that he did not have to be with his teammates on road trips.

I consider a personal recliner in the locker room a much, much less jerky thing than not being with your teammates on road trips. Even though he wasn't pitching, he could easily tutor the younger players and be there in case there is an emergency (e.g. extremely long game or a situation where you don't want to burn a position player as an early pinch hitter).

 

Clemens and Bonds both have a lot of enemies and people who want to see them fail. I don't see a race issue here - the list will have people of all races on it.

I get sick of everything involving a black person having the race card pulled. Give me a break.

 

I hate Bobby Petrino right now because he's white, not because of what he just did to the Falcons.

 

I agree. Clemens will get deep fried.

Totally disagree with you on Bonds being reported. When you treat journalists like they are trash, they will tell people about it. When you are the most difficult and aloof teammate most major leaguers ever play with, some will tell people. When you have numerous (and I mean numerous) incidents with fans, some will tell people about it. The negative press about him being a jerk is a self-inflicted wound by Barry Bonds. He made himself an issue and his jerkiness has been verified since he played for the Pirates.

 

And you also are shocked that Barry Bonds might be judged by his personality. If that is how you feel, then what you think is out of line with general thought. When people think of Bobby Knight, the first think most of them think of is the coach who is a jerk, which is why he is at Texas Tech instead of Michigan or UNC.

Knight hasn't done any of that stuff for years. But ESPN still shows him ranting and swearing in press conferences all the time. I think most sportswriters are more likely to hold a grudge from being sworn at and called a m***** f****** idiot in a press conference, than from Knight throwing a chair at some guy years ago.

In any case, there are undoubtedly racists who hate Bonds because he is black, but if you really think that it is the driving force here, you are simply wrong. Barry Bonds gets treated differently than Clemens by the media because he tangibly acts different than Clemens does with the media, and that trickles down.

Is it really that difficult to see how acting like a jerk would affect the way people think about you? Again, hatred for Bonds existed long before he was 'home run king'.

It is genuinely, really, not about white people feeling threatened by the symbolic phalic penis power of an arrogant black man having the home run record. People in Georgia are not locking up their daughters from fear. I guess maybe that image somehow makes people feel more powerful or something, but it is not real. He is a black man, but he is not the black avenger, striking a blow at racists everywhere. Don't make him into more than he is. He is not Huey Newton. He is disliked for what is inside the skin, not out. Isn't that the way it is supposed to be?