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Clemens Says He "May" Boycott HOF Ceremony

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by Manny Ramirez, Jun 15, 2003.

  1. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    If there was any doubt why Red Sox fans and basically all baseball fans besides Yankees fans hate this *******, consider this pile of ****:


    Clemens says he may boycott Hall ceremony

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ESPN.com news services


    He's won six Cy Young awards and 300 games and is only one of three pitchers with 4,000 strikeouts. Roger Clemens has written his own ticket to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

    The question is, will he be in Cooperstown on the day of his eventual induction?

    Clemens said Saturday he will not attend his own induction ceremony if he is not allowed to go into the Hall of Fame as a member of the New York Yankees.

    The Hall of Fame reserves the right to select which team a player will be identified with for induction. For example, Gary Carter will enter the Hall this summer as a member of the Montreal Expos, even though his wish was to go in as a member of the New York Mets.

    The 40-year-old Clemens, who won his 300th game Friday night against the Cardinals, has said he plans to retire at the end of this season. If he does retire, he will become a member of the Hall in 2009. Clemens, who also pitched for the Boston Red Sox and Toronto Blue Jays, has emphasized numerous times his desire to go into the Hall as a Yankee.

    "I play 20 years, work my tail off, they're not going to tell me what hat I'm wearing," Clemens told reporters Saturday. "I promise you that. There might be a vacant seat there. I'll take my mother and we'll go to Palm Springs and invite all y'all and we'll have our own celebration."

    Clemens spent 13 years with the Red Sox, two with the Blue Jays and the last five with the Yankees. He posted terrific numbers for all three franchises, but did not win a championship until he joined the Yankees. He has won two titles with New York, plus his sixth Cy Young Award.

    "Somebody told me there are a couple of guys who don't even have a hat on," Clemens said. "But that would be disrespectful to what Mr. (George) Steinbrenner has given me: an opportunity to come here and continue my career, to be able to achieve these moments and become a Hall of Famer.

    "I became a Hall of Famer here," Clemens added. "If I'd have listened to people there [in Boston], then I'd have been done. Not people. One person that evaluated my skills and he didn't take the time to get to know me."

    Clemens left Boston as a free agent after the 1996 season when general manager Dan Duquette and the Red Sox figured that his best years were behind him. Clemens then signed with the Blue Jays and won the Cy Young in each of his two years in Toronto. He was then traded to the Yankees.

    Clemens has been solid for the Yankees this season, going 7-4 with a 3.73 ERA with a league-leading 97 strikeouts in 89 innings.





    Have your own ceremony with your mommy in Palm Springs?? LOL, who does this ******* think he is?

    Consider that he struck out 20 batters in a game twice, is the all-time leader in wins (ugh), won 20 games 3 times, 3 CY Young awards, and 1 MVP award all as a member of the Boston Red Sox .

    Yes, Dan Duquette was a major idiot for letting him leave and doubting his abilities, but let it go, Roger. Duquette was run out of town on a rail, and you have nothing to prove anymore. Throwing a tantrum about the Hall of Fame thing shows what a nutjob this guy really is. Does he honestly think that he can intimidate the Hall of Fame into giving him what he wants. It is too bad that the HoF can't discriminate based on attitude because this clown would never get in then. And to think he was my favorite player at one time.:(
     
  2. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    Well, Red Sox fans could try to mend fences by stop being such assholes to him. Maybe the next time he comes to Fenway, they should be gracious about the years he gave them and give him a standing ovation rather than booing him mercilessly.

    However, I agree with the general sentiment here. He should acknowledge his beginnings and realize that Duquette was an ass. Also, he should be thankful that Duquette made that comment, because without it, there may be some doubt as to whether or not he'd have been as motivated to comeback like he did.

    I have such a love/hate relationship with this guy. On one hand, I think he's an egotistical head-hunter who will only risk himself batting when he's going for his 300th win. Throws a bat at Piazza saying he thought it was the ball...no one bothered to ask him why he'd be throwing the ball at Piazza.

    On the other hand, he lived in Katy when I grew up there. I remember eating at Landry's when I was eight, and he came in for take-out. My Dad said I should go out to his car and get his autograph. After being rejected by Reggie Jackson when I was six, I really didn't want to, but I did. He was extremely nice. Every Halloween, he'd dress up, sit in his driveway, and sign autograph for a line of kids that went around the block. Not to mention, he's a Longhorn.

    He should go in as a Blue Jay anyway.
     
  3. Band Geek Mobster

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    I see nothing wrong with letting the man decide which team he goes into the Hall of Fame with...it's not like he only played for the Yankees for one year. I understand why they aren't allowed to choose the hat they wear, but when it's not entirely obvious, they should give the player benefit of the doubt.

    Also, why would he want to go into the Hall wearing the hat of a team who's fans hate his guts? I'd do the same...to hell with you Red Sox fans...
     
  4. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    They talked about it this morning on "The Sports Reporters". What they're afraid of is players who look like they're going into the HOF telling a team that they'll sign with them for more money in exchange for going into the HOF as a member of that team.

    That doesn't really apply here, though.
     
  5. super_mario

    super_mario Member

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    I live in Boston and the people here really hate him. I can't blame him for not wanting to go in as a member of the Red Sox.
     
  6. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Clemens played 13 seasons with the Sox and only 5 with the Yankees. As mentioned earlier, he had many accomplishments with the Sox. Yes, he did win 3 Cy Youngs after leaving Boston, but only 1 of those was with the Yankees. Yes, he had won some World Series titles, but that was because of the supporting cast.

    If he was really that GREAT, he would have never choked in Game 6 of the 1986 world series. Period.

    Personally, if I had known this is the way things would play out for his career, then I would have wanted to see him play his whole career with the Yankees. I guarantee you that Wade Boggs does not care what hat he will be wearing when he goes into the Hall (but maybe I am wrong).

    This garbage of him becoming a HoF player once he joined the Yankees has got to be some of the biggest flaming pile of **** that I have ever read. The bottom line is that he knows that he did some great things, far more greater, at Boston than anywhere else. The man has let his hatred of Duquette consumed him so much that he is not even thinking rationally, now.

    RM95,

    You think Sox fans are assholes to Clemens? Maybe we are, but there is one team that you don't go play for (at least willingly) and that is the Yankees. I mean we had the greatest player ever in Babe Ruth and then the dumbass owner got rid of him - selling him to the Yankees to finance his Broadway flop of a play! Seeing all the championships was bad enough, but add the constant stream of good players leaving the Sox to go to the Yankees would make any Sox fan recoil in horror when it happens again. Clemens is fully aware of all these emotions and does a great job of playing it for all its worth.
     
  7. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    I understand all the Yankee hating, Manny. But the way he left the Red Sox, with fans booing him and Duquette saying what he said, you should at least understand where he's coming from.

    Also, how did he choke in game 6? He pitched 7 innings and gave up 2 runs. He left with the lead. That's not choking, that's putting your team in position to win the World Series.
     
  8. Nomar

    Nomar Member

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    Clemens is a piece of trash, and deserves to die.
     
  9. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    I understand the hatred toward Duquette, but the man is gone. Maybe there was some misunderstanding on what went down between the two of them, but Clemens has played this rivalry brilliantly, IMO.

    And for the World Series, the man goes 24-4 during the regular season, strikes out 20 batters in one game, wins the Cy Young AND MVP, but can't win a damn game in the World Series? Maybe I was a little too melodramatic in saying he choked in Game 6, but going 0-0 in the Series was a HUGE factor in the Sox losing that series.
     
  10. Behad

    Behad Contributing Member

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    Just for the record, Manny, that part about selling Babe Ruth to finance a play is not true:

    Like most good tales, it's all bunk.

    So said a panel of experts who met on a recent evening at the Barnes & Noble bookstore in Yonkers for the express purpose of torpedoing the "Curse of the Bambino" and restoring the reputation of the much-maligned Harry Frazee. The panel included Tony Morante, a part-time writer and tour guide at Yankee Stadium, Glenn Stout, an editor and author of the book, "Red Sox Century," and Max Frazee, Harry's great-grandson. Making a surprise appearance was Jacob Ruppert, the great nephew of the Yankee owner by the same name.

    Stout, who has conducted extensive research on the subject, laid out a thesis that essentially places Frazee at political odds with Ban Johnson, an imperious American League president known as "the czar of baseball." Frazee's independent nature led to a series of falling-outs with the powerful Johnson, who demanded total fealty from his franchise owners.

    According to Stout, these behind-the-scenes squabbles set the stage for the sale of Ruth to the Yankees.

    Despite popular lore, Frazee was neither a failed producer, nor was he cash-starved. And he certainly did not make the Ruth deal to finance "No, No, Nanette." In fact, the musical wasn't even produced until 1924, long after the deal was consummated.

    On top of that, Max Frazee noted that "No, No, Nanette" was a huge success for several years, boasting 18 tour companies all over the world.

    "He did not bleed the Boston Red Sox to finance any of it," he said. "He was a millionaire by 1917 at least."

    So did he sell Ruth? The short answer is that Ruth, who was a superb pitcher for most of his early career with the Red Sox, had become a pain in the neck. He was a petulant, womanizing lout with a bad knee, who jumped the club twice during the disappointing 1919 season, got drunk and disorderly and cracked up too many cars.

    "He wasn't Babe Ruth yet," Stout said. "From Frazee's perspective, it made a lot of sense to sell him off — and that, in fact, is what happened."

    That fate ultimately smiled on the Yankees and team owner Jacob Ruppert is largely owed to the divisive machinations of the iron-handed league president. Because of Johnson's legal opposition to a previous deal between the Red Sox and Yankees involving the pitcher Carl Mays, the eight-team league split into two factions — the "loyal five" and the "insurrectos."

    The "insurrectos" were Frazee, Ruppert and Charles Comiskey, who owned the scandal-ridden Chicago White Sox. In the end, Stout said, Frazee could only deal with his one ally, Ruppert.

    Stout said Frazee traded off other Red Sox players before selling the team to "leave the cupboard bare" and thumb his nose at Johnson, who wanted to award the franchise to his own handpicked man. The lean years that followed resulted from a combination of extraordinary bad luck and incompetent ownership, but not from any curse.

    Bob "Lefty" Cremins, who is 95 and lives in Pelham Manor, pitched for the Red Sox in 1927, a very lean year for Boston. In fact, he pitched to Babe Ruth in one game that the Yankees won in a blowout. The other day, I asked him about the "Curse of the Bambino."

    "Well, I don't know, what the heck," he said. "I just wanted to play baseball. That's all I cared about."

    He got Ruth out — "two pitches and he grounded out to first base. I was glad to get rid of him."
     
  11. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    Just like going 24-4 was a huge factor in the Red Sox being there in the first place. I think a little too melodramatic is quite the understatement. He left game 6 after giving the Red Sox the lead. Can't ask for much more than that.

    Even if Duquette's gone, it doesn't change how the fans treated him is last season or so in Boston, and the fact that they still boo him mercilessly. I'll admit, <B>both</B> Clemens and the fans are wrong.

    What I don't understand is what BGM asked earlier. Why would Red Sox' fans care if Clemens went in as a Yankee...y'all already hate him.
     
  12. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    Come on Manny. Take off your Red Sox colored glasses and look at it from his point of view. Everything the Red Sox have been to him from Duquette to now has been hatred, doubting of his abilities, and vitriol. Would you want to represent the team whose fans hate you (as you readily admit) when you are enshrined in the most famous place in the world that recognizes acheivment? There could be an argument that he should go in as a Blue Jay (20 wins and a Cy Young each season he plaed for them) but a Cy Young, 300th win, 4,000th strikeout, 2 World Series rings, and 5 years of excellent baseball are enough that his wishes should be honored and he should go in as a Yankee. It isn't as if there are no Sox in the Hall or something. Cy Young, Yaz, Williams, etc.

    Anyway, it never seems like Sox fans hate Boggs as much as Clemens, why is that?
     
  13. Band Geek Mobster

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    Is there a more bitter fan than a Red Sox fan?

    You guys constantly bash Clemens, and now you question why he wouldn't want to go into the Hall representing your team?

    Not sure about you, but if I were in his situation, I would do everything possible to avoid going into the Hall wearing the cap that represents a bunch of bitter fans that constantly give me hell no matter what I do.
     
  14. PhiSlammaJamma

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    I thought Nolan picked the Rangers. surely mlb did not pick that for him. He did nothing for Rangers except end his career. The player should get to pick the hat in my opinion. It only makes sense
     
  15. Behad

    Behad Contributing Member

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    It's only recently that the Hall has begun picking the hat.
     
  16. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Guys, it all boils down to the fact that Clemens thinks he is bigger than the Hall. Why is that hard to see?

    He is a great player, maybe one of the greatest pitchers of all-time, but that doesn't mean he can tell the Hall of Fame what he will do and won't do.

    And Hydra, Red Sox fans don't hate Wade Boggs because he didn't go overboard with the histrionics of this rivalry like Clemens. He didn't trot off on the field and leave dejected with a "3,000" hits glove against Boston or constantly say in the press that he "became a Hall of Famer" after joining the Yankees despite winning like 5 batting titles with Boston. So that is your answer.

    BGM - maybe I am bitter but nothing will give me greater pleasure than to see the smug look on that idiot Clemens' face be wiped off when the HoF tells him that the cap will be a "B" and not a "NY". Knowing that he will be enshrined forever for the team he despises is an ironic and fitting punishment.
     
  17. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    Sheesh Manny, its not like Roger said you are a big Creed fan or something. ;)
     
  18. RocketsPimp

    RocketsPimp Contributing Member

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    You Red Sox fans never cease to make me laugh. You guys will find any reason to trash the Yankees that it has become comical.

    Get over it already.
     
  19. drapg

    drapg Member

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    I believe Wade Boggs negotiating with the Tampa Bay to enter the HOF as a Devil Ray is what caused the HOF to change its rules about players picking their team of affiliation in the HOF.
     
  20. TheHorns

    TheHorns Member

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    Manny, you are not grasping the entire situation here. He does not just hate Duquette, he is not too fond of the way in which he was treated by the Boston fans.

    Read Super Mario's post, he lives in Boston, stated the fans hate him, and stated that he does not blame Clemens.

    I too think it should be up to the player to pick which team he wants, and could care kess if a player did use it as a bargining tool. The HOF & MLB would be idiots to have a rule for that reason.

    Who cares what he uses for a bargining piece? Players use getting to the All Star game to get more money or bonuses when negotiating contracts, should that be frowned upon as well?

    Curse of the Bambino. They have no one to blame but themself!
     

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