amen; preach it! it's interesting how silly and myopic we can be. STEROIDS are bad, bad, bad.... but do any of us EVER mention, let alone care about the likely endless amounts of pills and/or shots these guys are taking/getting just to be able to play each and every day/week? like numbing a bad shoulder so a guy can slam it at full-speed into another 300-lb brick-wall doesn't have long-term implications as well? seen earl campbell lately? we seem to pick and choose our pious-ness, and it's often dictated by the media gatekeepers. drugs of nearly every variety are FLOWING through every sport; it's silly to focus on one (or two).
What you guys are forgetting is he is going to stop having to take steroids, so he won't be as good. Yeah, IF he could still pitch that would be great, but I have serious doubts that he can. And weren't many of you ready to run Roger and "his boyfriend" out on a rail when he signed with the Yankees? As I recall, he was a backstabber, greedy, and other stuff. What happened to all that?
Drugs of what kind? Crack? Or legal stuff? A cortisone shot isn't the same thing. It matters only to me that players took drugs like steroids that massively improved performance and distorted the game. I'm glad Bud Selig takes it just as seriously, or maybe he's just a dumb self-righteous fan that doesnt know about cortisone shots and supplements. Clemens is a cheater. I didn't say kick him out of the hall of fame or out of baseball. Just calling him what he is.
if anyone deserves to be criticized, it's that baffoon of a commissioner bud selig. he allowed this to go on knowing full well it's implications, yet once baseball had reaped the rewards of skyrocketing revenues, attendance, and growth he decides to publicly slam the same superstar players who were responsible for it's current success. dont think for a minute bud didn't know these sorts of activities were going on 10 years ago.... yet he didn't do a DAMN THING. and now we have to listen to him pat himslef of the back for his feign concern and outrage towards the things his been harboring and benefiting from for years??!?!? to hell with bud selig... the man is a self-righteous, exploitive idiot and baseball will be better off without him.
I seriously doubt he knew all this was going on. Do you have any proof of that. Whatever mistakes were done in the past, I am just glad he embraced all of the Mitchell Report recommendations and is serious about fixing this. I could see another commissioner easily poo-poo "myopic" fans and sit on his ass doing nothing.
well, they started testing for steroids in 2002 (if i'm remembering correctly)... he signed with the astros in 2004. we would be wise to stop underestimating the ego of athletes, but clemens has always been on the fringe of steroid talk (all but being outed as far back as fall 2006), so i struggle to believe an athlete of his stature would have risked his legacy during the testing era. granted, he may have moved on to HGH by that time... point is - the ball is in his court; if wants to, and says he can... why WOULDN'T you take him back? clemens has always been greedy; we just didn't mention it as much when his greed led him here. for three years, he was a dominant pitcher in an astro uniform - he raised the franchise's visibility and pushed it to its greatest successes. if he wants a steroid-free farewell tour, and the astros stand to be the benefactors, let it rip, i say.
yeah, no one was talking about players like mcgwire and sosa using steroids during the magical summer of love way back in '98... if bud selig didn't have an inkling of any of this until the past 2 years, he's even stupider than i thought.... as it is, he probably knew damn well there was a BIG problem with steroids and performance enhancing drugs yet did next to nothing about it. in fact, i find it humorous that you would believe that the freaking commissioner of baseball would have NO CLUE that some of his biggest superstar players were consistently using these PED's for the past 5, 6, or 7 years.... unless, of course, he's just an idiot.
4 reasons I wouldnt take him back- cost, his declining performance, questionable health, and (I know it doesnt matter to you, but) his cheating does bother me and perhaps Drayton.
my point is that as fans, we're more or less complicit in creating this culture. we demand that our athletes rise to and maintain an unrealistic level of performance, but we embrace blissful ignorance concerning the "how." then we see the earl campbells of the world, broken and crippled, and inherently (if not consciously) recognize our role in that result - after all, did any of us ever accept 80% instead of the standard one-10 from campbell? and did we ever bother with how he was able to maintain that 110% standard? so the steroid scandal allows us an outlet to supplement our guilt for a stretch before sticking our heads back in the sand and demanding our athletes get back to the business of putting on the best show possible. like msn said, it all comes off as self-righteous. we have a choice to either treat these men as real human beings - who hurt and bleed and wear down - or continue the illusion that they're indestructable greek gods worthy of being on a pedestal. as such, you can't pick and choose elements of a much larger picture to be outraged about.
At the same time, if he had said anything, you would have called him myopic, ignorant, and would have probably asked him why he isn't focusing on cheaters who use too much pine tar. Selig should have been on top of this earlier, but I'm glad he's on it.
I dont know about this storyline, Ric. Fact is they get paid millions of dollars so I dont feel much guilt. Sure, if someone gets injured I feel bad. But more and more sports are changing rules to address that, such as all the rules to protect QBS in the NFL. And players are held out of games if they risk career- threatening injruies. And mainly, I absolutely do care about HOW it is done. I want to see someone who has acquired skills and achieves higher performance through hard work, practice, and talent. Not by injecting something in his/her butt.
they all work hard, practice and have god-given talent; those are still the main ingredients for success. but to assume they're not supplementing those with something extra.... they ALL are - pain killers, cortisone shots, hgh, creatin, steroids... so why are we apopolyptic about steroid usage but apathetic if a player is, for example, taking a legal substance that numbs his current reality? how is that inherently better if the end result (broken player in his later years) is ultimately the same? you either reject the culture (win at all costs) as a whole, or accept it for what it is.
and what u are forgetting is that he has never tested positive for anything since they started testing
And that the only allegations about Clemens drug use was not in his time here in Houston when he was quite good.
But how can we trust him? Ok let's say he hasn't used steroids. He is still declining and injury prone. How much is he worth? Would you rather spend the money on a guy like Livan who would be cheaper?
I do believe everyone who's been in favor of Clemens has stipulated that it be "cheap" or at least "incentive laden".
There is a huge difference between cortisone shots and steroids. I can't believe you would lump them together. "a legal substance that numbs his current reality"- can you define that substance? Sounds like you are talking about heroin? "you either reject the culture (win at all costs) as a whole, or accept it for what it is" I reject the idea that I have to reject the culture as a whole. All I am saying is that we should ban steroids and HGH, a faily uncontroversial proposition.
No, you said, "Why would we want this fat cheating loser back?" I agree with you that we should ban steroids and HGH. As a matter of fact, hello and welcome to 2005. They're banned. The question is, do you think we should piously exclude players from our current and future roster based on past "cheating" or current "fatness"? If you're going to label Roger a cheater and ostracize him, yet you still embrace Mike Scott for his historic contribution to this franchise, to me that smacks of hypocrisy.
Yes, I called Clemens fat, loser, and a cheater. So it's not JUST the cheating. Also the fact that he is old and breaking down (fat) and someone who has stabbed us in the back and left while claiming that he wants to live close to his family (loser). Didn't he also just complain about the Astros culture? How was Mike Scott cheating? Scuffing the ball? While that is cheating, I submit that it is a far less serious and effective form of cheating. I mean, compare stealing a candy bar to robbing a bank. While Roger Clemens perhaps extended his career 10 years and won a few more Cy Young awards, Mike Scott got maybe a few extra strikeouts and a couple of decimal points less in his ERA. Yes, cheating is cheating. But I think there is cheating that is far worse.
