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Cleanup Hitter

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by deb4rockets, May 25, 2024.

  1. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    Will somebody help me understand why Bregman is our cleanup hitter. I'm no baseball guru, but I always thought the 4th position was the cleanup hitter. I thought the cleanup hitter was supposed to be your power hitter, someone with the best SLG and RBI. It just baffles me that Bregman is in that spot when we have guys with much higher slugging, RBI, and OBP.

    Why wouldn't Tucker or Meyers be in that spot?

    I was reading the following and it makes me question it even more......

    The fourth spot in the batting order does come up to the plate with runners on base more than any other lineup slot. That means this cleanup descriptor isn't based on nothing. According to "The Book," the fourth slot is the only spot in the order that comes up with runners on base at least half the time, on average. So there is a reason you would want your best RBI guy -- however that is defined -- hitting in that spot, unless your optimal lineup would require that batter to hit first or second.

    https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/22590228/the-dos-s-picking-cleanup-hitter
     
  2. Radricky

    Radricky Member

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    Track record
     
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  3. Buck Turgidson

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    Yeah, he was so, so good with runners on base last season (OPS well over .900)

    He just kind of sucks in every and all situations so far this year.

    I'd hit him 6th or so for a while, but Espada does not answer my phonecalls
     
  4. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    You’re only really the cleanup hitter in the first inning.

    Last night he delivered with men on base.

    When he was on his hot streak, he had less men on base.

    As soon as somebody else bats “cleanup” and doesn’t perform as well as they did in another spot, the BBS will clamor as to why Espada messed with that.

    All that being said, I don’t think Bregman deserves the 4th most AB’s on this team, and that’s as good a reason as any to move him out of there. Right now would be a toss-up between Meyers and Pena (until they hit their mini slumps).
     
  5. Buck Turgidson

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    Altuve-Pena-Tucker-Alvarez-Diaz?-Dubon?-Bregman?-Meyers?-somebody?
     
  6. Buck Turgidson

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    You're the "cleanup hitter" every AB assuming that the best hitters on the team get on base in front of you
     
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  7. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Diaz? Not sure where he gets pencilled in. I’d have to channel when this team was having Chris Carter in the everyday lineup and Espada has to somehow figure out how to bat him in a premier spot when he’s on a hot streak.

    Sorta like knowing when to bet big at blackjack. You don’t know… till you do it…. And you always regret not doing it when things are rolling.
     
  8. seemoreroyals

    seemoreroyals Member

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    Bregman is notorious for his slow starts. I don't know if he has ever gotten off to a hot start to a season..

    IMO we need to move him to the bottom third of the lineup. If he were to get hot then move him back up. He has definitely hurt the team more than he has helped batting clean up this year.

    As far as a logical reason for continuing to bad him clean up, I can think of none at this time.
     
  9. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    Since the fourth spot in the batting order does come up to the plate with runners on base more than any other lineup slot it makes sense to me to change the lineup. Actually for this entire month Tucker and Meyers are our power hitters with SLG of .766 and .633. Pena is .452 and Breggy, the guy holding that spot has a .365. It's just so strange. I don't get it.
     
  10. Buck Turgidson

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    Double Down!
     
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  11. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Circle back after 162 and then it may make sense.

    None of it works in small spurts.

    Also the BBS is currently way too enamored with hindsight lineup changes. It doesn’t work when the hot streak has already started or already finished.

    You have to make the change before the hot streak… and that requires Doc Brown and a Delorean.
     
  12. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    You would split those 10’s, wouldn’t you?
     
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  13. Buck Turgidson

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    Truth, but this is the worst slow start of his career
     
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  14. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    And ironically the best 3B he’s played since 2017… even Steven?
     
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  15. Buck Turgidson

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    Depends on whose money I'm playing with
     
  16. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    Well even if you look at the ave for the entire last season and this entire season Bregman is not our power hitter. It's not even close.
     
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  17. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    The game has favored giving your best hitters more AB’s.

    Altuve isn’t an ideal leadoff hitter based on previous dogma. Tucker and Yordan wouldn’t have been batting 2nd as much under previous dogma (even though both have had the most production batting at that spot).

    You give your best hitters the most AB’s. Hitters that get on base, don’t strike out, put the ball in play, etc. tend to be the guys you want up with men on base… this was Bregman’s MO before last season. He could also bat 2nd but he’d take more AB’s away from Tucker/Yordan.

    Theres no right answer, no wrong answer… unless you know who the best/hottest hitter is and then you want him batting in a position with most men on base and still where he gets the most AB’s.
     
  18. Buck Turgidson

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    Dammit I'm looking stuff up, I hope yall appreciate this crap: Bregman after 200ish PAs

    2024: .209 .275 .326 .602
    2023: .223 .337 .374 .710
    2022: .226 .345 .399 .744
    2021: .298 .393 .449 .843
    2019: .265 .388 .554 .943
    2018: .259 .376 .398 .773
     
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  19. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    Picsart_24-05-26_06-58-47-691.jpg



    Astros have to overcome their opponents and their manager -- just like last year.
    .
     
  20. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    Depends on who you're playing with.

    Splitting 10's creates enemies at the table.
     

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