Crispee, also CD said initially MJ accepted the money, but they were working out the rest of the details. Then he didn't get here for a couple days. Could be they did it that way to see if something with GS could be worked out before the sheet was signed. But then GS wasn't answering the phone according to CD. They must of just said screw that and went forward to force their hand. I think we have them boxed in, their only real option is a side deal after rejecting MJ...
Yakeem, I am your father... Join me and together we can write whimsy drivel and rule the Houston Chronicle as father and son...
Now that there is an signed offer sheet, should we be alarmed or overly concerned? That is the key question today. I happen to believe today that the chances of MJ being a Rocket are very good. The only thing to stop it would be a very costly move and there is no justification for that. GS had all summer to sign him and trade him if they wanted to get something for him. In fact, they are lucky that the Rox did not have one dollar more than $4.5m else all this would be mute. MJ was never in GS long-term plan. They had his rights, he showed up and played years later and did well. If they wanted him badly, they would have signed him already.
I agree Dearrock, I think the rumors are dead. And that is often the case that "rumors" are over before we hear about them. The deal would have been done if there were one. imo, nothing about them signing Marc makes sense for any of the rumors, since they now cannot discuss trading him anymore...and one cannot convince us there is a salary purging scenario based on GS first adding $3m to their salary by matching us. They cannot talk to NY about trading Marc for a guard, anymore. Nor can they ask Marc if he'd accept it. Nor can they dump Dampier to save salary after first adding Marc to their salary. We are left only to ponder whether they really want him after his comments? I'd say we are in very good shape...as you say. The rumors no longer make sense...but I don't see why they couldn't have been true at one point.
One reason would be that GS, according to everything I've heard, has never had any interest in Charlie Ward, despite Peter Vecsey's fantasies to the contrary. Of course, Vecsey was also the guy who said the Warriors were a lock to take Eddie Griffin about 10 minutes before they selected Jason Richardson, so it's not as if he's got great sources for GS info.
Crispee, If GS decides to not match the offer, do the Rockets still have to wait the full 14 days or can they officially sign him once GS confirms it publicly? Can Jackson at least show up at training camp, even if he's not officially signed, but GS has publicly stated they won't resign him?
Ah, now I'm catching the gist of what crisp is saying, it makes sense now. I was assuming that the Warriors had the offer sheet and they didn't until yesterday, now everything crisp and Doc are saying is clear. Thanks guys!
The answer is in how you define "decide not to match." There is an official renouncement of a Qualifying Offer allowed after Oct 1st...which instantly makes a Restricted Free Agent become an Unrestricted Free Agent. However, it is illegal for us to give them an incentive to make it official. -------added explanation------- Also note that this clause of withdrawing Qualifying Offers includes nothing about being able to do that after an Offer Sheet arrives. I am assuming that part for argument's sake. All that is said is stuff like "should 15 days expire...then the Offer Sheet turns into a contract...." type stuff. There is nothing that comes straight out to say that a Offer Sheet can convert to a player contract faster than 15 dyas. A ROFR "exercise notice" can be renounced...but that hasn't been exercised by GS yet, so that is not what we are talking about. --------------------------------------- <b>Assuming Qualifying Offers can be withdrawn after Offer Sheets</b> The reason the renouncement of Qualifying Offers is allowed is because Restricted Free Agents are a salary cap hit equal to their original Qualifying Offer. Marc currently is a salary cap hit for us equal to our Offer Sheet. If GS decides not to pursue Marc after Oct 1st, they have their own incentive to purge their Qualifying Offer as a salary hit (considering my concerns in the added explanation above). However, we are only talking about like $500K in the Qualifying Offer or something as his cap hit to GS, thereabouts, right? So while the rules allow you to renounce Qualifying Offers from July 1st-Aug 7th and after Oct 1st for salary cap reasons with no incentive but your own self-serving incentive....in Marc's case the gain is so little, GS might not do it. What is their incentive? <b>Assuming Qualifying Offers cannot be withdrawn after Offer Sheets</b> If withdrawing a qualifying offer is not allowed after an Offer Sheet (say because an Offer Sheet replaces it), then maybe that is another reason the Rockets waited 4 days to send the Offer Sheet, because they were exploring ways to get GS to withdraw Restriction...and did not succeed for GS reasons or for league office reasons of not be allowed to persuade the ROFR team to withdraw.
Article today from the Contra Costa Times: http://www.contracostatimes.com/sports/basketball/warriors/stories/wraz_20011003.htm I hope that team chemistry is important enough to GS to let Jackson go with nothing in return.
I believe those of you who think Marc Jackson is as good as ours aren't seeing the big picture. Golden State has some high priced big men on their team. If another team were to offer a trade for one of those big men, then Golden State would be in the market for a lower priced big man (say a little over 3 mil. in the first year). So Golden State can make a trade with another team that has absolutely nothing to do with our offer to Marc Jackson, and then they can match the offer sheet between the Rockets & Marc Jackson ... Golden State trades a big man off their current roster, and then replaces that person with Marc Jackson. Works well for them, but kinda screws us.
The problem with that Toaster is that Marc Jackson doesn't want to be there and it causes a potential chemistry problem. It's bad enough that Jackson ripped into management and said that he just wants to get away from Golden State, but Golden State themselves have fired back on Marc Jackson so keeping him causes chemistry concerns. And trading away someone and keeping Marc Jackson doesn't effect their payroll. They get added payroll in whoever they trade for, and get a longer contract in Marc Jackson, a guy who doesn't want to be there and who they have blasted.
True, but chemistry issues aside, if GS was offered a trade which addresses another need of theirs, and then they take Marc Jackson as their center, they could potentially be a better team without necessarily adding to their salary cap. I'm sure they'd at least be interested in considering it. Perhaps the chemistry issue is too great to ignore, but teams have dealt with bad personality matches in the past (with varying degrees of success). I guess I just don't want to count my chickens before they hatch.
Even if they match our offer, why does Jackson have to sign with them? Is it because he's a restricted free agent?
Toast-But chemistry issues aren't aside, and both sides have some things they'd have to take back before that'd be an even remote possibility. And they'd still be adding Marc's long term contract, which they're not even sure they want in the first place. It would basically be similar to signing Derrick Coleman in free agency for 6 years.
Sure they can trade a center now independent of matching...I'd agree with that. And sure they can gamble that later they can purge Dampier's salary or something else. My point is that they can't purge salary in any trade rumor mentioned on this BBS. It is not likely they can reduce salary right now. Toast, they cannot reduce salary by increasing salary to Marc Jackson. Right now, Marc Jackson only counts about $500K on their cap. If they match, they have increased their salary by $2.750m. Do you not see that? It is the identical situation to us giving Moochie a big raise. Read Bay Rock's article. Now, you say they can then trade a high priced center to make up for that increase pay to Marc. The question is, can they find a salary purging trade before they end of Marc's 15-days to match. Any future promising to find such a trade are illegal, if they influence GS's decision to match or not to match. <b>So, why is it unlikely they will find salary purging trades right now?</b> In any trade to a team over the cap who doesn't have a trade exception, <b>they must receive matching salary back to within 15% of what they send away</b>. For instance, let's say they have a $10,000,000 center. They can trade them for a player making $8,500,000 to purge $1.5m, without trade exceptions because they are within the 15% trade rule. Cut that in half, and a $5m center can only purge $750k at most. Now, how are they going to make up for the increase pay to Marc of $2.75m via 15% salary-matching purges. They can't...not without a team willing to give up cap room right now, or a team with a major trade exception approaching $5m. So these are all future scenarios based on negotiating with teams that will have cap room later...that is, they are promises that are illegal. They would be operating on an illegal trade promise if that promise convinced them to exercise their ROFR to Marc. So, the big picture is what incentive do they have to increase their salary by $2.75m to keep a disgruntled player who will have a no trade clause....bearing in mind all future promises contributing to that decision are illegal.
There are teams out there holding trade exemptions, and there are even owners out there who couldn't care less about luxury taxes and things of that sort. I'm not saying Golden State has contacted any of these sorts of teams, 'cause I don't have access to such inside knowledge. I'm just saying that there are situations out there that suggest the possibility of Marc Jackson wearing a jersey other than the Rockets Pajamas. I hope this isn't the case, but I'm not gonna start wearing his number 'til it's official, you know?
Toast, It doesn't matter how much a owner wants to spend...there is a salary cap in effect right now. You do not seem to understand that you can't trade a $5m player to Portland for a draft pick, no matter how much money Allen has (as an example). It is against trading rules. It is against the 15% trade rule. The salaries in a trade must be within 15%. Name me a trade exception out there that is $5m or higher. We were able to completely purge Dream's salary ONLY because Toronto had a $5.1m exception. The Knicks were able to purge a portion of Rice's salary (the difference between Rice and Anderson), because the Rockets were under the cap. Go find a team with $5m in cap space right now or a $5m trade exception. Those are the ONLY teams who could help GS purge Dampier to warrant them increasing their salary via matching Marc. Who are those teams? Not the Knicks, Miami or Indiana or any other team mentioned so far in the trade rumors. The only other valid salary purge scenario makes them wait 1 yr for the effect (after the Luxury Tax would hit if it did)...that is trading Dampier for a player with one yr left on their contract, then renouncing that player this summer. Until this summer, there would be no decrease in team salary, though.
