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[CJ] Is Hamilton Next?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Jul 2, 2020.

  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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  2. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Who has ever argued that Hamilton or any statue or medium has to fundamentally alter society?

    Talk about a strawman.
     
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  3. FranchiseBlade

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    The whole premise is a straw man.
     
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  4. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    https://thespool.net/reviews/2020/07/hamilton-disney-plus-musical-lin-manuel-miranda-review/

    excerpt:

    But with all this, there’s a problem. No matter how much I wax lyrical about the hypnotic songs or the incredible performances, I could never fully give myself to Hamilton‘s thrall, given how it handles the people it represents and America as a whole. This is a production about the establishment of the American republic that never once mentions Native Americans – not even in passing. Even slavery only gets a few mentions, each getting more grating; they feel more like hollow applause moments for mostly white Broadway audiences rather than reckonings with America’s construction on the backs of slaves.

    Within this, the production frames Alexander Hamilton as an ardent abolitionist when at best he was a lax one and was still entirely complicit in the system. It is also just optically weird when Miranda (who’s Latinx) is dissing Diggs (who’s Black) about his state’s use of slaves, even more so when Washington (who also owned slaves) is meant to be a hero.

    Obviously, any piece of media which recreates history leaves some things out and has inaccuracies, but the gaps left here form a weird liberal fantasy which softens the rough edges of these morally despicable people and allows for shallow, “progressive” patriotism.

    The casting of an almost entirely Black and Brown cast as these historic American figures adds an extra layer of complexity to the issue. Cynically, it feels like hollow representational politics at their most grotesque. Black and Brown people, as well as culturally Black music, is used to launder a reverence for genocidal slavers. Instead of America being a racist settler-colonial project built on stolen land, it becomes “young, scrappy and hungry” like Hamilton, and therefore more palatable for a largely white liberal audience.

    This is especially grating when you remember that Hamilton is written by someone who isn’t Black or Native American. As a result, this doesn’t even work as a (deeply flawed) reclamation. Instead of reckoning with the past and present, we get a colourblind presentation of history which erases the racialised dynamics on which America is built.
    more at the link
     
  5. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    I don't want my Broadway plays to be accurate.
    A bunch of old fat white dudes who can't sing and dance is not ideal and not worth the $500 to see if that's the case.
     
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  6. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Wait — there was not actually a phantom during phantom of the opera?
     
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  7. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    My wife and I went on a binge Broadway vacation before our kids were born and we saw lots of popular musicals: Phantom of the Opera, Avenue Q, Hamilton, Book of Mormon, and Wicked. At no point did we think these shows would benefit from being collegiate level historical critiques of history and sociology. If I did, I’d probably read @Os Trigonum links instead. Would’ve saved money too.
     
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  8. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    It's some dude in a mask singing songs for 2 hours
     
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  9. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    When I go to Disney World,
    I like to see some kid dressed up in a giant costume waving at everyone.
    I don't really want to see live mice running around.
     
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  10. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    I can assure that the majority of the Shannon Sharpe , Stephen A Smith loving members of Clutchfans
    thinks Broadway is a street where Sir Mix A Lot and his posse like to drive through
     
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  11. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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  12. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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  13. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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  14. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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  15. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    ouch! must have touched a nerve.
     
  16. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    No it was my infant waking up and refusing to go back to sleep. But he is Tankie and Tankies are just as bad as fascists.

    What’s a Tankie? A Soviet apologetic who thinks soviet styled communism is the only viable path even if that means sending in the tanks to crush dissent. That man calls Obama an Uncle Tom and talks about Russia gate. He was Jill Stein’s VP. If he is not getting a rubble stipend he needs to renegotiate with his handler.
     
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  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    okay

     
  18. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    #138 bobrek, Jul 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
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  19. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Did you literally search Twitter for Tankie?
     
  20. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Given Tankie is slang:

    http://tankie.urbanup.com/623575


    tankie
    A hardline Stalinist. A tankie is a member of a communist group or a "fellow traveller" (sympathiser) who believes fully in the political system of the Soviet Union and defends/defended the actions of the Soviet Union and other accredited states (China, Serbia, etc.) to the hilt, even in cases where other communists criticise their policies or actions. For instance, such a person favours overseas interventions by Soviet-style states, defends these regimes when they engage in human rights violations, and wishes to establish a similar system in other countries such as Britain and America.

    The term is used to distinguish the rare individuals with these kinds of beliefs from communists more broadly (including Communist Party members), whose adherence to Soviet doctrine and attachment to existing "socialist" states is somewhat weaker.

    It is always more-or-less abusive in the sense that those termed tankies do not use the term themselves, but it doesn't have any particular bite (unlike, say, Trot).

    The term derives from the fact that the divisions within the communist movement first arose when the Soviet Union sent tanks into communist Hungary in 1956, to crush an attempt to establish an alternative version of communism which was not embraced by the Russians. Most communists outside the eastern bloc opposed this action and criticised the Soviet Union. The "tankies" were those who said "send the tanks in".

    The epithet has stuck because tankies also supported "sending the tanks in" in cases such as Czechoslovakia 1968, Afghanistan 1979, Bosnia and Kosovo/a (in the case of the Serbian state), and so on (whereas the rest of the communist movement has gravitated towards anti-militarism).

    And more recently


    Tankie
    (noun) A leftist who is so overly concernedwith not being mistaken for a liberal that they accidentally became a conservative.
    Kyle: Everyone is so obsessed with identity politics now.
    Rosa: Don't be such a tankie, Kyle.
     

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