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Church: Obama, NSA, Verizon

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. bobmarley

    bobmarley Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  2. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    It's good that Obama has taken national security seriously and we haven't had any massive attacks on our country and infrastructure as we did under Bush -- the 9/11 attack is a black eye on the United States that will never go away.
     
  3. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Why is it that it seems like almost every important thing we learn about the Most Transparent Administration in History is because of leaks?</p>&mdash; Kirsten Powers (@kirstenpowers10) <a href="https://twitter.com/kirstenpowers10/status/342815864082542593">June 7, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
  4. bobmarley

    bobmarley Contributing Member

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    Unfortunately, that is not the case :(

    You can add Boston to the list too.


    http://www.ibtimes.com/boston-marathon-bombing-timeline-terrorist-attacks-us-targets-911-1193485#

     
  5. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Not surprising to me that the problem that you have no problem with the "warrantless" part of illegal wiretapping - but the fact that it exists at all.

    So I'm equally not surprised that you see it as indistinguishable from non-warrantless legal non-wiretapping.

    Why bother with facts when you can feed it into the same narrative that starts with a conclusion.
     
  6. bobmarley

    bobmarley Contributing Member

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    WSJ Report: NSA Tracking Credit Card Transactions, Also Has Access To Phone Records From AT&T And Sprint Along With Verizon…

    [​IMG]

    I wonder what Senator Obama would have to say about this?

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324299104578529112289298922.html

    WASHINGTON (WSJ) —The National Security Agency’s monitoring of Americans includes customer records from the three major phone networks as well as emails and Web searches, and the agency also has cataloged credit-card transactions, said people familiar with the agency’s activities.

    The disclosure this week of an order by a secret U.S. court for Verizon Communications Inc.’s phone records set off the latest public discussion of the program. But people familiar with the NSA’s operations said the initiative also encompasses phone-call data from AT&T Inc. and Sprint Nextel Corp., records from Internet-service providers and purchase information from credit-card providers.

    The agency is using its secret access to the communications of millions of Americans to target possible terrorists, said people familiar with the effort.

    Civil-liberties advocates slammed the NSA’s actions. “The most recent surveillance program is breathtaking. It shows absolutely no effort to narrow or tailor the surveillance of citizens,” said Jonathan Turley, a constitutional law expert at George Washington University.

    The arrangement with the country’s three largest phone companies means that every time the majority of Americans makes a call, NSA gets a record of the location, the number called, the time of the call and the length of the conversation, according to people familiar with the matter. The practice, which evolved out of warrantless wiretapping programs begun after 2001, is approved by all three branches of the U.S. government.
     
  7. bobmarley

    bobmarley Contributing Member

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    PRISM Scandal: Tech Giants Say NSA Tapped Their Servers Without Their Knowledge…

    [​IMG]

    Not sure what to believe here, at best the firms are trying to cover their asses, at worst (and this would be very, very, very bad) the Obama administration allowed the NSA to secretly tap the servers that run the internet.

    Via Guardian:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/07/prism-tech-giants-shock-nsa-data-mining

    Two different versions of the PRISM scandal were emerging on Thursday with Silicon Valley executives denying all knowledge of the top secret program that gives the National Security Agency direct access to the internet giants’ servers.

    The eavesdropping program is detailed in the form of PowerPoint slides in a leaked NSA document, seen and authenticated by the Guardian, which states that it is based on “legally-compelled collection” but operates with the “assistance of communications providers in the US.”

    Each of the 41 slides in the document displays prominently the corporate logos of the tech companies claimed to be taking part in PRISM.

    However, senior executives from the internet companies expressed surprise and shock and insisted that no direct access to servers had been offered to any government agency.

    The top-secret NSA briefing presentation set out details of the PRISM program, which it said granted access to records such as emails, chat conversations, voice calls, documents and more. The presentation the listed dates when document collection began for each company, and said PRISM enabled “direct access from the servers of these US service providers: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, Paltalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube, Apple”.

    Senior officials with knowledge of the situation within the tech giants admitted to being confused by the NSA revelations, and said if such data collection was taking place, it was without companies’ knowledge.

    An Apple spokesman said: “We have never heard of PRISM. We do not provide any government agency with direct access to our servers and any agency requesting customer data must get a court order,” he said.

    Joe Sullivan, Facebook’s chief security officer, said it did not provide government organisation with direct access to Facebook servers. ”When Facebook is asked for data or information about specific individuals, we carefully scrutinise any such request for compliance with all applicable laws, and provide information only to the extent required by law.”

    A Google spokesman also said it did not provide officials with access to its servers. “Google cares deeply about the security of our users’ data. We disclose user data to government in accordance with the law, and we review all such requests carefully. From time to time, people allege that we have created a government ‘backdoor’ into our systems, but Google does not have a ‘back door’ for the government to access private user data.”

    Microsoft said it only turned over data when served with a court order: “We provide customer data only when we receive a legally binding order or subpoena to do so, and never on a voluntary basis. In addition we only ever comply with orders for requests about specific accounts or identifiers. If the government has a broader voluntary national security program to gather customer data we don’t participate in it.”

    A Yahoo spokesman said: “Yahoo! takes users’ privacy very seriously. We do not provide the government with direct access to our servers, systems, or network.
     
  8. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>For those who say Obama didn't increase PRISM program post-Bush, companies added since 2009: Google, Facebook, YouTube, Skype, AOL, Apple.</p>&mdash; NumbersMuncher (@NumbersMuncher) <a href="https://twitter.com/NumbersMuncher/status/342820315736461312">June 7, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
  9. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    Oh for ****s sake sam. A blanket "warrant" for metadata from every ****ing phone user on verizon is not defensible. Stop being deliberately obtuse. It's just dumb.
     
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  10. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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  11. bobmarley

    bobmarley Contributing Member

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    This is from last year

    --------------------------

    NSA Chief Denies Wired's Domestic Spying Story (Fourteen Times) In Congressional Hearing

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...tory-fourteen-times-in-congressional-hearing/

     
    #71 bobmarley, Jun 6, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
  12. Blake

    Blake Contributing Member

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    I don't think anyone can deny that this is the fault of the w admin for putting this into play. Those of you laying the blame for this existing on the new admin are ridiculous. Trying to demonized Obama for continuing the practice that the Bush admin started is absurd. However, those shouting only at the w admin while completely ignoring the fact that the new admin has supported and expanded this (assuming they are aware, and really hard to believe they couldn't be) don't look much better IMHO

    It's okay to be disappointed/appalled by both. I certainly am.
     
  13. bobmarley

    bobmarley Contributing Member

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    I am appalled at both too on this issue.

    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Ben Franklin
     
  14. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Lindsey Graham doesn't care.
     
  15. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    The NSA technically doesn't intercept anything.

    They just retrieve the records those companies keep...
     
  16. bobmarley

    bobmarley Contributing Member

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    He talked about the Verizon issue. The Prism story didnt break till this evening. I will be interested to know what he thinks tomorrow.
     
  17. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    The ones being obtuse and blurring significant distinctions are you and basso - him because he's a shameless idiot, and you because it slides into the narrative of most/all surveillance is bad/illegal/wrong/unjustified/overbroad - regardless of whether it actually is on its own merits...like when you confidently assured as last month, prior to any of the details being known, that the AP subpoena was overbroad overburdensome, unnecessary- and then subsequent evidence showed otherwise.
     
  18. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Always get a chuckle when a right wingnut attacks Obama from the left.

    Basso is like Rush -- just a total GOP tool when all is said and done.

    Total hypocrite. to be so totally chickenhawkish and a cheer leader for the Iraq War, an enthusiastic supporter of the whole "global war on terror" deal and then against phone surveillance just because Obama is in office.
     
    #78 glynch, Jun 6, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
  19. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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  20. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    ^lulz...y not post the times directly?
     

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