I agree, if you really watch how many loose balls he gets on both ends of the floor it is amazing. I have been amazed at how when the ball is anywhere near him he will end up with it. Very few times does the other team get it. I also think the fact that the Magic fouled him so Adelman would have to take him out of the game so he couldn't guard Rashard anymore was amazing. Has anyone ever seen that tactic used before? I'm not sure what his +/- are but I am sure he is tops on our team again. Also, his ability to box out and anticipate where the rebound is going is uncanny. If his doubters just watch him a couple of series they will understand what I mean. There are times where I would like Scola to get more minutes but there are also times when I am glad when Chuck is in the game.
This just shows how stupid you are. Every team would jump to have Hayes on his team. A lot of coaches and team scouts praise him. Don't forget his contract is very tempting. Very low cost and very high production. It's not a coincidence that a good many opposing pf have a low shooting percentage whenever the Rockets play them.
People tend to think this isn't true because no one tested the Rockets loyalty to Chuck in the off season. Since he was a restricted free agent, everyone knew that the Rockets were likely to match whatever they offered for him, so other teams stayed away to find other alternatives. Much like they did with Side Show Bob in Cleveland. Now that Chuck's got such a nice little contract I wouldn't be surprised if people are asking about him as part of a trade now.
Chuck Hayes is good and I think that he should start cuz he defend pretty well the great pf. We also need to play more Scola for more offense. He s improving day after day.
Chuck is very productive, he's just not starting material - this is in no disrespect to his abilities.
Post defense. Not shot blocking. Not intimidation. Hayes for the most part does better in one on one post defense than anyone on the rockets. He also is quicker on the rotations and in rebounding. He may not start for much longer, but he should always be a part of the rotation. Also, when he starts, he can sometimes keep the opposing big guy from getting on a roll.
Interesting comparison, but that's only half the story. How about Hayes' defense vs Scola's offense? Or even more importantly, what's the net PER for each guy? As a PF, Scola's PER rating is 16.3. His opposing PF's PER rating is 16.1. That means that Scola's net PER rating is +0.2. So, he doing slightly better than the PF's that he's matched up with. Hayes' PER rating as a PF is 13.5. His opponent's PER rating is 15.6. That gives Hayes a net PER rating of -2.1. That means that he's being out-produced by the opposing PF. Looking at both sides of the floor for both guys shows that Scola's net PER is 2.3 points higher than Hayes'. Why do the numbers not agree with the perception that alot of posters seem to have? My opinion is it's due to overestimating Hayes defense. His opponent's PER is 15.6. The league average PER is 15, so Hayes' opponents are doing slightly better than average against him. That's not terrible, but it hardly indicates that he's a lock down defender. Hayes certainly is fundamentally sound on defense, but that still can't overcome the size disadvantage that he faces every night. The bottom line net is that Hayes' opponents are doing slightly better than average against him. His numbers don't indicate that he's shutting down opponents. Looking at the numbers, you'll also see that Scola's opponent's PER is 16.1. So, the net difference in Hayes' defense and Scola's is 0.5 in PER rating. It looks like Hayes' defense is not as good as many perceive and Scola's isn't as bad as made out. On the flip side, Scola's offensive PER is 16.3 to Haye's 13.5. That's a difference of +2.8 in offense. I'd have to submit that the offensive boost Scola provides (+2.8) outweighs the defensive gain that Hayes brings (+0.5). Those numbers are for the PF position. If you look at the Center position, the numbers are even more in favor of Scola. Haye's net PER at center is -7.6, while Scola's is -3.2. Both get outplayed at center, but Hayes is getting outplayed by twice the margin that Scola is.
Jonathan Feigen mentioned Chuck in a response to an emailer on his blog: If NBA people are talking about Chuck's value at length, on their own, maybe he's doing something right? This isn't the first time Feigen has mentioned how much scouts rave about Chuck Hayes.
It's not an "all or nothing" matter. It doesn't have to be "Hayes is great" or "Hayes sucks". Hayes contributes, no doubt. That's not really the issue though. The issue under discussion is whether Scola bring more or not. It's actually possible for both guys to be contributing to the team and still be able to debate if one should be starting or getting more time.
BrooksBall is the worst poster on this board. The rotation is fine, but since you guys like changes so much, I would give Hayes more minutes.
Reading a thread that discusses which player helps the team more and somehow determining that the point of the thread is to say that Hayes doesn't contribute is also a sign of lack of reading comprehension. Since the Bulls have now determined that it's better if Ben Gordon comes off the bench, do you now think that they question Gordon's contribution? Just because you think another player is a better fit in a particular lineup, it doesn't mean that you are saying that the other player doesn't also contribute. Why is that so hard to understand?
Sure. I actually voted for Scola to start. That was more a response to people who are suggesting that Chuck is a marginal NBA player who barely belongs in the league.
I guarantee you that if Chuck were put on the trading block, at least 28 other teams would be calling. The exception would be the Wizards, since they already have two similar players...although they might call just in case.
The thread is titled "Chuck Hayes vs. Winning", and many of the posts have suggested that Chuck has little value. I think it's appropriate that people respond to that.
Now that is a ****ing great post. It's beyond time all of the Hayes lovers recognize that Hayes deserves to be a bench role player at best on this team. On another team or this team without Shane Battier (who is also a better overall contributor than Chuck), Hayes might really be the right fit, but he is not the right starting fit on this team. Do not take that to mean I do not like what Hayes has to offer. It just needs to be utilized properly given the team makeup. The sooner Adelman and staff do something about it, the sooner we take the next step to becoming a legit power in the West. That means winning more games people!! With Hayes starting we are beatable on almost any given night.
I think having both players is crucial, both of their strengths are greatly needed. Hayes has been shuting people down, Bosh and Randolph. Scola scores points, you can find a way to get both them minutes, by sometimes going big letting Scola or Hayes get time at center.
Defensive PER, actually, is a pretty poor stat for determining defensive ability. There are a lot of switches and cross matches going on all the time. In addition, it does not address how often a guy receives double-team help. Also, it does not address a player's ability to make play help defense and rotate to the right guys at all (BTW, Adelman's main issue with Scola has been with help D rather than man D). Chuck has been a much more effective than Scola. The defensive PER does not reflect that fact. The fact that Adelman keeps putting Chuck and pulling Scola out in when he needs the defense to play better is a good indication.
This is the kind of post that makes the GARM so worthwhile, if you can get through the chaff. Great stuff, aelliott!
That's the opinion that I have. The lunacy of statistics is in full view when the 12 point Rocket win over the Knicks has Hayes with 4 points at +13 and Yao and Brooks with 30 and 22 points but +5 and +6 respectively. Yes, I know you agree that game to game plus minus is not that significant but if the minutia of statistics were as important as people around here propose, we could do away with scouts altogether. Since a good portion of this board is in a stats-frenzy, perhaps it should also be noted that Hayes commits personal fouls at an NBA record level on a per minute basis. Go to the 82games article on Anderson Varejao and see what they say about his value due to his near All-Time NBA high level of fouls per minute. Then go compute Hayes' fouls per minute. You guys can say anything you want about me...at this point I don't freaking care. I've been watching the game with an analytical vent for a long time. But I don't need a fraction of that experience to observe the Dirk's and Duncan's of the NBA stand flat-footed with a face up J going in over Hayes. Outta here and mad at myself for even validating Hayes with a comment.
