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Chronicle: Separating reputation from reality

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Deuce, Jun 22, 2003.

  1. AroundTheWorld

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    I agree with codell that it is not a coincidence that Yao's performance went downhill after Larry Smith took over. And that is exactly the reason why I hope that Larry Smith will not be back as an assistant.
     
  2. Juugie

    Juugie Member

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    Contrary to popular belief, you can't be annointed "The Man." You have to earn being "The Man." You have to earn the respect of your teammates.

    What i saw last year was after the All Star Break, the Rockets tried to establisk Yao down low to start every game. Sometimes Yao would be productive and would get more shots. Sometimes he would be tentative and soft and ineffective and wouldn't get many more touches.

    What Yao only did just a few times last year was take over a game. You want Francis and Mobley to defer their games and get you the ball on every play? Get your ass out there and dominate the paint and prove to them that something good's going to happen when you get the ball.

    Yao fan make think it's okay to keep feeding Yao the ball when he's being pushed out and stripped and having his shot blocked becuase Yao fan likes to see Yao play. And even if the Rockets lose but Yao gets a lot of shots, Yao fan is happy.

    Yao needs to prove to his teammates that he can dominate a game. Making a few cute passes isn't enough. He has to strap up and go to war down low. I think the fact that we need a "protector" PF for Yao is saying something. Dude has to protect himself.

    If Yao will establish that he is a warrior by hitting the boards and blocking shotsm and controlling the paint down low, then he will get more touches.

    And don't forget, probably Yao's best three games - against Dallas, LA, and SA early in the year - he got most of his points by diving to the basket and having that selfish, no passing skills, worst PG ever to play in the league Steve Francis setting him up with sweet passes at the rim.
     
  3. RIET

    RIET Member

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    This is hilarious. I think you mustve written this during the season and saved it on your hard drive and was just waiting to cut and paste it.

    Good job man. :D
     
  4. egn

    egn Member

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    posted by juugie
    "What i saw last year was after the All Star Break, the Rockets tried to establisk Yao down low to start every game. Sometimes Yao would be productive and would get more shots. Sometimes he would be tentative and soft and ineffective and wouldn't get many more touches. "

    You must not have been watching the games I watched; or that you were not paying close attention to them. When Francis did give up dribbling, and gave Yao the ball, he just stood there watching from the arc calling "Yao, Yao.......HEY YAO!!!!!". All the while Mr. Ming was getting double and triple teamed at times by multiple seven footers. As if Yao, being a rookie and not having years of NBA experience, could fight his way through the harassment. To me, that is a combination of Francis not knowing how the game of organized basketball is played in accordance with Rudy T's lackluster practices. It was not until Moochie came off the bench and started running backdoor cuts and feeding off of Yao, that Mighty Mouse (Steve Francis) decided to pick up on that!! And if you had watched the games you would have noticed that Mooch was the "spark plug", and he played better alongside Yao than Steve. But don't think I'm trying to say that Mooch is a better talent..........NO...........just a better fit. When Francis was in, it was all about him.

    It's all about his own numbers!!! And that's it!!!
    I don't know if you remember, but some of you guys "boy", Feigen, wrote an article early in the season talking about Francis and how he was saying "I'm not about my numbers, I'm all about the team." And the very next game, that night, right before the half, he got a piece of the other teams shot as the half ended; and he went over to the scorer's table to make sure they saw and recorded that block.

    It's "ALL ABOUT THE TEAM" huh, Steve???
     
  5. egn

    egn Member

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    nice job of the cut and paste, by the way!!!!

    Are you talking about the Dallas game where they won.
    I didn't think so!!
     
    #145 egn, Jun 24, 2003
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2003
  6. hoosier

    hoosier Member

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    egn..........you're "THE MAN"!!!!!!!!! :D
     
  7. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    RIET,

    puff piece? You read it as absolving...I don't. imo, you only read that as absolving because you are someone who finds blame in a simple manner that describes how to fix it in a simple manner...discipline and trades.

    pfft

    I don't think that is more analytical than what Feigen did. To me, he said this:

    1. Francis is not a point guard, but he is still a playmaker and moving him to the two is not something that he doesn't already do. He should be able to run a fastbreak better and a PnR better. He doesn't, but that is what the videotape will show you. This statement: "The days of wandering and jumping picks are over. " is more analytical than it appears. Can you explain to me what Feigen said in that quote.

    2. Yao Ming was tired...we all agree on that, so the "dive" part of the PnR, and the team defense will instantly improve with just rest. Why does it need to be hugely fixed by moving Francis to the two and having a "real pg" run the PnR.

    3. Heavy ISO/PnRs happen in the NBA, and Dallas's set offense proves it. We just do it poorly and inconsistently, and Feigen said we did. When he said "dribbling," who did you think he was talking about other than the guards. He did blame them. I wish we could play differently or better, and Feigen has said that before, too...but "Executed well, the pick and roll is still the toughest play to defend. " That is fairly true. It is certainly the toughest thing to defend these Rockets can do, and Rudy came up with more than one way to do it to suit Yao Ming.

    imo, Feigen is saying that when JVG watches the videos he won't say, "I can't believe they ran that many PnRs," he'll like say, "Man, we need to improve that Francis/Yao PnR."

    4. As for the young and high flying reputation...he disputes that correctly, no? He just doesn't say, "Francis is selfish and Mobley needs to be traded." So what? The point is that JVG will see this teams needs focus and displine to quit wasting opportunities that required Rudy to slow them down. I don't see how a coach would look at all that speed and fastbreak potential and not think they need to discipline it or slow it down. Isn't that what Feigen said.
     
  8. RIET

    RIET Member

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    Feigen is disingenuous. This isn't a simple analysis of the Rockets. It's to spread the gospel, the "truth" about the Rockets. To dispel rumors that were not rumors but fact.

    Look at all the above.

    You still haven't addressed why Feigen somehow never mentions the 1 player who averaged the most minutes on the team.

    Let's see, Steve can't play defense, Yao was tired, and Eddie has no game. Ok, which player has he not mentioned and why?

    Let's review his points:

    1. Steve Francis is a good playmaker and traditional point guards are unavailable. The traditional pass first and shoot second point guards don't exist. (Cop Out #1).

    The real issue isn't how many shots Francis takes.

    Why do people really have a problem with Francis and not Marbury and Payton? Reason: Payton and Marbury pick and choose when to score. They know they can score but do it only after evaluating all the other options or do it later in the game. It's called decision making. They involve their teammates and set them up. That's always been the primary role of the point guard- get teammates involved. It doesn't mean you just hand the ball to your teammate and say, "go for it".

    That's why they average almost 2 assist more per game, commit less turnovers and yet still manage to get their 20. They have better vision and they are better passers. This has nothing to do with the bogus "there are no tradional point guards available" BS.

    Feigen talks about it later in the article but not in the paragraph where it's most relevant. Why?

    Instead he blames it on poor shooting. (Cop Out #2)
    1a.

    Question: Did we have more or less open shots for Francis and Cat this year with Yao then previous years with Cato.

    What's Cat's FG%? What's Francis' FG%?

    So they have more open looks than ever before but they can't improve their shooting?

    What wouldve happened had Yao not been double teamed. Go back and watch your tapes. Whenever Yao would make a move to the basket, his man never left his side.

    So Feigen talks about poor shooting without mentioning the fact that Yao helped create a lot more looks for the co-captains. Opportunities that they failed to capitalize. Where was that in his piece? Cat had his worst 3 point FG % in his career last season even with Yao drawing double teams.


    2. Yao. He talks about Yao after he faded. Feigen never mentions their inability to get him the ball during his hot streak. We've already agreed on this. Another material, deliberate ommission. (Cop Out #3)

    3. Who cares about Griffin.

    4. He talks about the ISO. First, he mentions the dribbling but doesn't identify who it is. Then he talks about Dallas and the fact they run. Ok, once again, we talked about this. It's obvious who is dribbling too much (Cop Out #4) and why we cannot run the break (Cop Out #5). Why does he not mention them?

    5. Slow down team/unable to take care of the ball. Who commits the most turnovers again? (Cop Out #6)

    If you read the article, Feigen makes excuses for Cat and Steve over and over again and when he does admit it's their fault, he won't come out and actually say it.

    This is not a Rumor/Reality piece.

    This is Reality/Reality.
     
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    RIET, do you honestly see this as some sort of insidious plot by Feignen to further his unspoken agenda? I see a beat writer doing his job. His opinions happen to differ from yours. It happens, you know?

    Maybe the reason why he didn't mention Mobley is cause he suspects Mobley may not be here next year...he would have better reason to know than you or I.
     
  10. RIET

    RIET Member

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    It's not an "insidious plot."

    Feigen is probably tired of outside writers who don't cover the Rockets making these broad based assumptions that all the Rockets problems were due to 1 reason: Cat and Steve ignored Yao.

    Do I agree with this generalization? Absolutely not. I agree that part of the reason was lack of a consistent PF and that Yao just sucked at the end of the year.

    However, my problem with the piece is that he tries so hard to dispel this "rumor" that he will not directly blame Francis or Cat for any of the problems with the team other than making general statements like the team can't shoot.

    The majority of the problems still lie with co-captains who were in charge of the team. They were the leaders, they were the best players on the court, and responsibility falls on their shoulders.

    Maybe we should examine why Steve Francis isn't a great passer or can't run the break or if Mobley is the type of shooting guard we really need.
     
  11. DavidS

    DavidS Member

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    I actually like your summary better than Feigen's. :) Even though I agreed with most of what Feigen's original article said.

    One side note, he did seem to write it with a "it's not as bad as people think" tone.

    To me that was playing the PC crowd. He tried to soften it up, or gain points. He tries very hard to not "offend" anyone.
     
    #151 DavidS, Jun 24, 2003
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2003
  12. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    RIET,

    "this is not Reputation|Reality it is Reality|Reality,"
    umm, so, you agree with Feigen's "Reality," you just don't like calling the other side a "Reputation."

    man, don't know what to tell you. You agree with him, but then you don't. You just want him to blame people and say "There are easy answers, dammit!!!"

    Instead, he basically said, we aren't that good, but the reality is that JVG won't agree with the reputation that there is some magical adjustment with yelling at/teaching some players and trading others.

    You are mad at him not placing blame, so what happens when JVG doesn't call out the players, either? When he talks about ISOs/PnRs, he seems to be saying that NBA coaches will not try to turn Francis into a Kidd. They will still focus on PnRs, but try to improve them, limit the turnovers, and improve the fastbreak somehow.

    I don't get what your point is.

    Man, that is really stupid. Who was he talking about, then, Cato and Griffin?
     
  13. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    imo, he just shows respect. I read him very closely, and I don't see him sugar coating things all the time. He's a beat writer, so he has to report and get the quotes, but he certainly does not hold back on his Sunday NBA Dish full page, and he does get his Rockets critics in over the course of a season. When he writes something like this, I tend to think Feigen is basing his rep on it.
     
  14. RIET

    RIET Member

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    I don't know. You tell me. I thought he was talking about the guards but I don't see that anywhere in the article.

    And yes, I do equate that article as a big suckup piece.
     
  15. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    I just did, and don't even try to tell me that you didn't know who he was talking about.

    And I also noticed you never answered my question, what does "the wandering and jumping picks is over" mean? Who was he talking about there?

    The guy knows his ****, and you will equally be pissed when JVG doesn't bash the players, too.

    poor, poor RIET.

    what they don't come straight out and say doesn't matter when you know they know their ****. It doesn't mean they absolve players when and where it matters.
     
  16. RIET

    RIET Member

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    I would hope JVG never bashes his players because a coach should never do that in public.

    The beat writer on the other hand? He knows these people and have a relationship with them.

    If it's obvious then why doesn't he just come out and say what he really means.

    "Outsiders" may lack specificity but they aren't afraid to pull punches.

    You call it respect. I call it something else.

    I mean good grief:

    How many built in excuses are there in that 1 paragraph alone? Ive already talked about this in detail and why this is totally bogus.
     
    #156 RIET, Jun 25, 2003
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2003
  17. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    All I know is that when jonathan feigne lurks around these message boards he must be laughing his ass off at how much we have overanalyzed a 3 day old article.
     
  18. bamaslammer

    bamaslammer Member

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    As a real sportswriter ( I cover Georgia high schools and Auburn University across the state line) I'm here to tell you that he wrote an excellent article that was correct in all its points. I don't think you realize how hard it is to write something on deadline after spending hours at practice, doing stats research and coming up with new story ideas on your beat. It's not as easy a job as you think it is. I don't think you realize that this man spends just as much time on the road as the team does, going from city to city, living out of his suitcase for months at a time and on top of that, having to write creative stuff that is not just run of the mill on a non-negotiable deadline. If you disagree with his points, that's your right, but to simply say he has his head up his ass is assinine. :mad:
     
  19. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Yes, you called it "Reality | Reality."
     
  20. timm

    timm Member

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    Bama, excellent points. As an ex-sports reporter myself, its a huge challnge to be looking for a new angle with the same stuff that everyother media person has similar access too.

    Having said that, this article is probably been in the works for some time and timed to be right in between the end of the finals and draft time. At least I guess that's how the editorial folks would have looked at it.
     

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