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Chronicle: Separating reputation from reality

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Deuce, Jun 22, 2003.

  1. silent j

    silent j Member

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    Jeff,
    Feigan may know more than you, but he clearly doesn't know more than the other basketball geniouses that post here. :rolleyes:
    How can he know more than the average poster here? Has he ever been a coach or player? There's no way he knows more than those posters who are stat-geeks that can quote Steve's assist to turnover ratio per game, or those guys who can remember every post up attempt by Griffin.
    Jeff, Feigan may know more than you, but you can trust that if you want real basketball information, you can come to this board and get all the solid info you need from the posters.
    j
     
  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    I didn't even read the Dave D'Allesandro article.

    The reason I think it's a poor article is because he doesn't provide any real insight whatsoever. He simply takes some myths and presents them with a different perspective, and then concludes that things aren't that bad.

    First he takes the Steve myth and says, "well, Kidd is the only true PG, and Steve is not as bad as some people think." Gee, thanks. Then he takes the isoing, and says, well, "Dallas isos a lot too, and it only seems like we iso too much because we don't run fast breaks." Brilliant. :rolleyes: This isn't dispelling any myths, it's just very weak reasoning.

    I mean, if that's his position, that's fine. If people think the Rockets are on the right path, that's great. Just support it better. It's a hack piece, just my opinion.

    As for the Brand comment, I did not pretend to support it with great evidence, I was just giving my opinion.
     
  3. finalsbound

    finalsbound Member

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    I thought it was a great article, with everything on the money. Mr Clutch, it's weird, because you're interpretation of the article having "weak reasoning" seems completely off to me. I actually think he did do a good job at dispelling myths.
     
  4. Greg M

    Greg M Member

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    No doubt. My problem is with the style and the substance of the article, not the topic. I always look forward to reading Feigen but this article was disappointing.
     
  5. SLA

    SLA Member

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    That was a great article!!!

    How come it's not in the Houston Chronicle???

    I liked it...

    But he didn't include solutions!! He just said...be patient and wait...they should get it in a few years......

    We don't need Francis to be a true point guard!!!!

    But we don't need him to be walking up the court and dribbling for the entire 24 seconds!!!!

    AND DEFENSE!! DEFENSE!! DEFENSE!!!
     
  6. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

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    Too many facts for this article to resonate around here.
     
  7. TBar

    TBar Member

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    Good article- I think Feigen is an excellent analyst.

    With some fine tuning - and a strong rebounding power forward - this team will improve.

    I did not agree with every single thing, but he brings up insightful points-he makes me reflect and think. That is what a writer should do.

    I hate Blinebury-he is so obnoxious that he does not even provoke interesting thought.

    Feigen is the best writer at the Chronicle who covers the Rockets....
     
  8. terra

    terra Member

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    FEIGEN's main point, hided in some of his article, is that Yao has not been at Duncan's level yet, rockets will otherwise be fine. Too passive for rockets to wait for adding a Duncan - I mean a Duncan-like Yao.
     
  9. Woofer

    Woofer Member

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    Good article but he missed something on Griffin, he needs to work on his shots from all ranges. Horrible form IIRC.
     
  10. solid

    solid Member

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    I usually agree with Feigan, BUT, in this case, I agree more with Mr. Clutch and TexasStoke. Feigan's myths were actually the realities. And, if JVG looks at the film, he will come to the same conclusions.
     
  11. Yun

    Yun Member

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    How can those points in the article were considered "myths"?
    They are reality.
    They need to be fixed not just... "Oh! wait the rocket will be fine, So do not change anything" as he said.

    How long we will have to wait before doing something like reducing the Iso or ,in his article, running more?

    :mad:

    Just sit tight, the rocket will finally be better in..20 years?:rolleyes:
     
  12. studogg

    studogg Member

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    I think Feigan wrote a solid article. He seems to be one of the few beat writers of an nba team that really knows his stuff. And if you remember correctly, before the season ever started, he called our record dead on!!!!!!

    To me, that simple fact means the man knows something. Whats more, I think Van Gundy will come to the same conclusions. Steve's defense is more of a problem than his point guard skills. Just imagine if the was able to hold the opposing point to fewer points in a game.

    Eddie is to small and erratic to be a post up player, but as a slasher he may be more effective.

    Yao was exhausted last year. The simple fact that he will be better conditioned should result in stronger play.
     
  13. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

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    EXCELLENT POST! You read my mind only more articulately.
     
  14. MFW2310

    MFW2310 Member

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    I won't bother arguing about SF's (or anybody else for that matter's) talent level. What I will say, however, is that Brand played on the post MJ dynasty Bulls with 0 talent, then for the Clippers which is the laughing stock of the NBA (with the only owner that doesn't want to win). Andre Miller sucks, but he was in the same boat as Brand. Namely he played for another team that's a joke (see if you can figure out which), then once again the Clips.

    I think all fans have a bit of a homerism but @ least be a bit more realistic. People on here make sarcastic about Brand like "how he's a proven winner." Well, what does that make Steve Francis?

    He's been in this leagues as much time as Brand and hasn't won anything either. But people on here joke about Brand and at the same time make excuses for Francis. Out of his 4 years, only the third year can you actually come up with a legit excuse on why he can't take his team to the playoffs. Like I said, I'm not arguing who's the better of the two, but you can only argue (NOT PROVE) that Francis is the slightly more talented player because he LOSES with the less talented Rockets instead of the Clippers (and might have done slightly better on the Clips instead of Brand). You CAN'T PROVE he's a winner any more than Brand.

    This is in no way a Francis bashing post. My only point is that I would traded Steve for more talented players. Andre Miller, no, but Brand is one of those guys I'd think long and hard about.

    Why does any post on here automaticallly turns into a Steve thread any ways?
     
  15. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Wow...came to this puppy a little late. Most of my points will probably have already been made, but that's never stopped me before...


    1) Don't really agree about Francis. The point that Feigan doesn't address, aside from the turnovers, is ball domination. Yeah, it's true that you don't have to have a pass first playmaking guard to win...but you do if that guy is the man with the ball for most of the offensive possession. Parker usually gives it up pretty early, only really keeping it when he's isoing, or running a set play, something the Rox hardly ever did. Take alook back at championships and you will see one thing about point guards: There are two kinds who win; the guys who dominate the ball and make plays for their teammates, and the guys who are really shooters, but aren't dominant players. Magic, Isiah, and Cheeks were all guys who got others involved with a much greater success rate than Steve now does; conversely none of Parker, FIsher, Smith, or DJ held the ball as long as Steve. It's a simple basketball equation; if the guy with the ball will likely keep it and try and create for himself, you are a much easier team to defend. We haven't even seen how easy this is to defend come playoff time, when teams have time to prepare for it.

    I made this point a few years back, about shoot first ball dominating point guards...Now this was still when we were in our honeymoon period with Stevie, so I was assured that he had it in him to brwak the mold for the position and the pattern for point guards. It's still possible...and oddly enough, despite popular opinion kind of reversing itself, I sort of think thgat Steve can eveolve a little more than I used to...but I don't think he ever would have had we not gotten a player like Yao to sort of force his hand. I have hope, but Feigan's glossy pass at the problem doesn't address it, or give me any more.

    2) This I agree with, to an extent...Yao tailed off quite a bit last year, and there were times it seemed to happen just when the Rockets were trying to make him The Man. Now there were also times where Yao would start off on fire, only to be 'cooled' by his own teammates, usually Steve or Cat, deciding to get shot happy. Feigan again seems to think that one ripple free point covers the whole problem, but in reality it was a dual problem Yao did tire, and was at times unable to carry the load...but it's not as if that chance was anything like a constant in the 2nd half, and there were still many nights where we would be hard pressed to tell just how tired Yao was, what with him watching Steve and Cat jack it up, or Moochie do whatever the hell he does with the ball.

    3) God allmighty...what the hell is he saying here? We iso too little? Went away from it, did we? Someone get this man a basketball manual. Yeah, we sort of isod less...in theory. But even our scripted plays reverted to isos when they encountered the slightest bump in the raod...and the Dallas example is awful; Dallas' iso's are designed within the team continuum, with players moving without the ball to avail themselves of the opportunities which the sort of isos are desinged to create, not clearing out to one side and cheerleading. This sounds like a statement made for iconoclastic shock value...

    4) Agreed. This point is pretty bang on, IMO. Having said that, i disagree with just trying to get Eddie to do what he already can do...you;ve gotta develop him, and post play is part of that. But in general, the way Feigan suggests using Eddie is pretty much what I think, and I have outlined ( A Few Simple Plays, etc.) offensive ideas which pretty much tally with what he says.

    5) Once again, pretty much agree. I see us being the kind of team that runs off of the forced turnovers JVG
    s defense creates, but pretty much being half court other than that. Opportunistic fast break, if you will, but otherwise built around Yao.


    In terms of the article, a few solid points, a couple of times where he seems to be looking at things through rose colored tunnel vision glasses, and once where I swear he was just typing at random. Sorry if I've just repeated what others have already said...
     
    #55 MacBeth, Jun 22, 2003
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2003
  16. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    I think this was great article. This team needs three things to win a championship.

    1. A good PF. Griffin is not ready and MoT just came back from a big injury. The MoT from his first season here would be adequate.

    2. Depth an the guard spots. Cat and Francis play way too many minutes and Moochie has regressed from his first season here.

    3. Yao Ming maturing and being able to handle being the man. Ming was not ready to be the man last year. He went beyond most people's expectations but he was not even a true all-star. Every all-star besides Yao and Ben Wallace (who is pretty dominate on the defensive end) can pretty much dominate any player in the league one on one. Yao got man handled by 6'9" Kurt Thomas. Yao needs to be able to take any player in this league one on one and stop blowing layups.
     
  17. rockergordon

    rockergordon Member

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    Yeah, one day the MAGIC article will arrive that makes everyone on this board happy. The article about how we won a championship.
     
  18. DCkid

    DCkid Member

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    Put me down as one who thinks is a great article!

    First of all, Feigen was not attempting to completely dispell any myths. In fact, he never even used the word "myth" in the entire article, so I don't know what some of you are talking about it. Instead, he uses the word "reputation," meaning short, simplistic views that are so cut-and-dry that people who don't follow the team can understand them. Reputations are often so elementary that they can't be considered "reality" without more information. And that's all that I think Feigen is doing here; trying to elaborate on some of these simplistic views to paint a bigger picture.
     
    #58 DCkid, Jun 22, 2003
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2003
  19. Texas Stoke

    Texas Stoke Member

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    Does anybody know when Fegian became the Rockets beat writer. Im thinking it was around the time the Rockets acquired Steve Francis and around the time they started to head to the lottery with regularity. If this is so, I wonder, how a mind that has been closely associated with and become tainted with the viewing and being a part of and having a close relationship with a team that has put on display for 4 yrs some of the worst and most disorganized professional basketball know to man, can truly write an objective article that tells it like it is...like, say, that De Allasandro(sp) dude, a dude without an agenda, eh samfisher...
     
    #59 Texas Stoke, Jun 22, 2003
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2003
  20. DCkid

    DCkid Member

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    I remember Feigen criticizing the Rockets quite frequently this past season. And for God sakes, all De Allasandro did was recite some reputations about the Rockets he probably heard through the grapevine, and all the sudden he's a hero. While some of his recital...I mean article...may have been true, it wasn't exactly inciteful.

    By the way, I did like the De Allasandro article for giving some incite into JVG's coaching style and what's he looking for (although, for all I know, he might not know a damn thing about JVG), but concerning the Rockets, he did nothing to convince me he had any first-hand knowledge of their current state.
     
    #60 DCkid, Jun 22, 2003
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2003

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