I'm going to have to take exception to that RM95. I didn't DISMISS anything as being PC (at least not in writing). T_J brought up the subject of Asian success in the context of said Asians being a US minority group. He also suggested that there might be fundamental differences between ethnic groups. He didn't stipulate whether these differences were biological or environmental......he just pointed out there might be differences and that in people's "never ending quest to not offend others," people don't even consider that these differences might exist. Given the replies here, it seems quite a few people might feel that Asians are inordinately successful—or at least more successful than other ethnic groups. I feel that way, but I'm just one person. If indeed, they are superior in that regards, than someone else has to be inferior in that regard. Unfortunate, but true. This is VERY un-PC territory. Almost as if on cue, Major came in and told us that: Minorities in good schools succeed. Whites in good schools succeed. Minorities in bad schools fail. Whites in bad schools fail. Far be it from me to argue with that, but the first thing that I noticed about Major's statements were that they were so PC. How could that be, I thought. Easy---because he took one PC tree out of a very big un-PC forest. Almost as if to prove T_J correct that people can't accept that there might be fundamental differences between races, Major completely changed the direction of the conversation. Maybe if I were to have had some sensitivity training, I would have done the same thing. But instead, I felt the need to point it out. Honestly, I don't see how T_J could have scripted it better to prove his point. I didn't dismiss Major's assertions. Hell, I think they were commonsense-ical enough to have been unnecessary. I just wanted to steer the thread back into rough waters. Let’s get it out in the open.
This is beautiful. I'm going to take a victory lap around my floor right now and then stand on top of my desk and pound my chest.
I hope you didn't address that to me, because I don't recall making such an absurd statement. I don't think anyone is arguing whether liberals or conservatives stereotype. Hell, liberals and conservatives spend too much time stereotyping each other as it is. Just in case there is any confusion, here is my agrument: many people, including many Asians, find this "Model Minority" stereotyping fallacious and highly offensive.
Kagy, I didn't dismiss that website...at least not in that thread. Hell, I even admitted to a possible liberal slant in the media. Pole, I guess I didn't understand your diabolical plan. Major simply gave reasons as to why he believes Asian-Americans appear to be more successful. He used an environmental factor. He didn't give a P.C. answer, he gave a smart one. Asian-Americans are richer than most minorities, hence they attend better schools, hence they succeed more than other minorities. Then other posters gave other reasons as to why that might be rather than a simplistic opinion that it's because their Asian.
1) Racist statement. How would you react to a sentence starting " Why do blacks routinely..."? 2) My race? Please, educate me AB, what is my race? 3) Re: Yogi Berra...your humour escapes me, as my reasoning obviously escapes you. What is so hard to understand? Racism has nothing to do with subjective applications of negative and positive assosciations, but merely with assumptions based soley on race...Ex. " Whites routinely do X." or " Blacks and hispanics never do Y." 4) Re: Blacks and latinos never...I not only disagree in principle with any statement starting with that kind of racial generality, but I disagree on experience to it's statement as fact. 5) Berra again...Hmm...If this is the way you look at things, I would suggest two things. Get new material, and a new perspective on racism, as you are apparently more a proponent of it than most people I know.
Yes and no, I talk about truthes and MY personal experiences, I don't quote stats to help fortify what is obviously satire. Whites being suspicious of blacks, Man you got me, that NEVER happens. Actually Jorge I refer to my first call as a police officer in an all white neighborhood, the call went, "527 we have a report of a suspicious black male, approx. 6'1, 180 pounds, DRIVING A PATROL CAR" That's a true story, and told to people that come to a place to laugh. Have you ever been to a comedy club Jorge, tell ya what, I'm in town doing another CD (The Monologue of a Pianoman) in December and I'll get you free tix. Not just and tickets, tix In my section right near some of my closest friends, BTW thanks for listening. Why didn't you mention how in 1996 I worked narcotics and earned 2.6 million dollars...
What the...!?!?! Most racism/sexism/etc. is justified by personal experience. I had a friend from Detroit, really nice guy, but when he first came up to Canada he was racist. He justified that by claiming that the 1st 5 or 6 times he encountered black men, they either mugged or tried to mug him. I am not saying his recollection was accurate, but it was truthfull...That is to say, it may not have happened the way he remembered it, but that was what he remembered. If those around you, media, etc. prepare you to see something, you will often think you see it, or will only notice those occurences that support what you believe will happen, and ignore the others. Anyways, my friend was intelligent enough that when we started hanging out with some of my friends who were black, he quickly realized the dellusion he had been basing his view on, and overcame his racism.But the point is that if he believed that X was true based on personal experience, did that make X true? Of course not. As far as your stories, it doesn't surprise me. There are racists out there, and idiots. Based on your assumption that whites are all like that because of those who are, I would suggest that you are at least one of the two. Does the fact that there are blacks out there who fullfill racist stereotypes mean that the stereotypes are accurate? Once again of course not....
MacB- 1. Blacks routinely do a lot of things, especially call themselves black, ah duh? 2. I do not know your race, my bad. 3. Yogi's coined statements are somewhat paradoxical in nature, maybe you're just smarter than me. 4. Me get new material? Really do you think this is material, do you think this is funny? If I were making a joke out of you, you would know, believe me. As far as my being a proponent on racism, I know what offends me as a black man and whether intentional or not, and this thread does. Jeff- forget the e-mail, I should have known better
I never said that ALL WHITES are like anything. Your friend was a dummy and I am appalled that you get THAT story anywhere near me. Don't argue with me about my experiences and what has formulated my beliefs. I am a positive person usually, but will not yield to negative racial innuendo, no matter which race.
1) Jesus..now he's arguing semantics...You are obviously smart enough to understand what I am saying, that statements of character/behaviour, NOT FACTUAL RECOLLECTION OF RACE-RELATED FACTS, based on an assumption of racial predictability is racist. 2) So the fact that you made certain assumptions of my race due to my not agreeing with your generalized portrayel of whites as racist would say what, exactly, about your racial expectations? 3) Yogi's were...my weren't. The paradox exists only if you assume connotations to terms like 'racism' that are subjective and non-factual. 4) Has nothing to do with intent. A racist is as a racist does...And what does a racist do? Makes assumptions based on race. Bingo. That would be you, brother. Hypocasy annoys the hell out of me. You can't justify your racism based on your race, or your racial experience. Either judging someone due to race is right, or it's wrong. It can't only be wrong when it apllies negatively to you or those with whom you sympathize. 5) You keep talking about hidden racism, or masked etc. Does this exist? Absolutely..and probably more now than when it was more condoned by society. But the fact that you read it into my asking what your basis was for your complaint in this thread, thereby implying that I was being 'negative' towards, without my ever having such thoughts, shows me that you have racist expectations of racism. And while you didn't say ALL whites, you said whites ROUTINELY...is there a real difference? If Joe says that MOST asians are smarter than MOST blacks, does that make him less racist than Frank who says that ALL asians are smarter than ALL blacks? No, both Joe and Frank are bigots, plain and simple.
Dude are you even talking to me? This thread references an article in the newspaper that "made an assumption based on race(http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42150)" I would ask if you're stupid but I know better! How am I trying to justify racism? I try to stay as far away from it as I can, I didn't pick this fight it was brought to me. My dialogue on stage is just that, staged dialogue. If someone wants to challenge me on what I said after a performance I will discuss, but hardly do I have those conversations because reasonable people understand that everything that I say on STAGE is a part of an act. You need tickets too? DANG!
Jeff, the Dayton study, was the author African-American? Here's what I can say about my parents, who did not come here with an education. They didn't graduate from high school in China, much less attend grammar school in the U.S. Also, while I have no empircal data to back this up, alot of Asians who immigrated to the U.S. were uneducated, like my parents. My parents were sponsored by the Catholic church. That was the key into the US for alot of Asians. A stipulation for them joining the US was to not get on welfare or ask for any governmental assistance. My parents swept movie theaters for their first year in America to make ends meet. They saved, worked hard, learned a little bit of English and then became entrepreuers. That's the short version of the story. The point: you can be successful in this country if you work hard and make your own breaks. Don't feel sorry for yourself. Did other Americans respect my parents in the beginning? Probably not. They spoke little to no English and they were very unworldly. But, once their "American bosses" saw their work ethic and down-to-earth disposition, they knew what my parents were about. Today, my parents are rather wealthy. I'm ashamed to admit that I've been leaching off them for a long time, but their love for me and their dreams of seeing me graduate keep me going. One more point to make: though we lived below the poverty line until I was 12, my parents never blamed anyone for our ills. They knew hard work (that phrase again) and living the American dream (corny huh) would lead to a very comfortable life. Our differences are socio-economical, imo. But, wherever you are in life, believe in yourself and work hard and your dreams can be fulfilled. My parents and millions of others like them are a testament to that.
Interesting, I may take you up on that. You could make it into a cc.net field trip. I personally would like to see a cc.net basketball grudge match, pitting those on the right versus those on the left.
Hpw can you make statements like " Whites routinely .." And " Blacks and hispanics never..." in defense of your position, and claim that you try to stay away from racism?...Those ARE racist statements. I was basing nothing on what someone said they saw you say in a performance, just on what you said here. You obvioulsy have been the victim of racism, and I empathize. But does that excuse you for making racist suppositions, based on your own experience? I'd say no. P.S....And if you really believe that" blacks and latinos never start discussions about the inadequacies of other races and how we are in some way superior", I would refer you to the following names...Eddie Murphy...Spike Lee...Richard Rodriguez...Arsenio Hall...Chris Rock...et bigoted cetera....In fact for a while it was all the rage...Like female comedians making "men are stupid " jokes..or should I say entire sets..
You'll have to sit on the fence and watch. [rim shot] I would just like to have the opportunity to posterize [insert left winger here] and then shout "CASE CLOSED" at the top of my voice.
As I have been apparently lumped into the left wing group, I can only suppose that your case, like your shot, would be summarily dismissed.
BK & RM95, I have forgotten...how long have you two been married? Pole, Yes he did. He is excluding environmental factors. Which is why he is dumb. Seriously...that was just a joke. Isn't it?
Consider it a date. We'll be waiting! gr8- Great story, now stop leaching! McB- Listen, you are beating a dead horse with a flyswatter. Cultures routinely "say" what is indigenous to their culture, that is not a racist thing. But sir if that is you point of contention you may have it, for I am far too weary to venture further into this abyss.
