Chronicle: Area Asians Have Head Start

Trader_Jorge can be a real ass. I've witnessed him act pompous, obnoxious, insensitive, and condescending. Reminds me of myself sometimes.

That being said, he brought up a subject that no one wants to touch. Major has pretty much successfully steered him away from it by making everyone think this is a discussion about blacks, whites, and education when Trader_Jorge tried to geer this discussion towards the un-PC subject of the disparity in successfullness between various minorities.

I'd sure like to see this conversation get back to that. Screw political-correctness. This is a valid conversation. Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians all attend many of the same schools.

Besides....what the hell makes a school good or bad? It would seem to me that they'd be ranked on the success or failure of the students. Where's the root of the problem? The teachers, the school itself.....or the students? Maybe a combination? Doesn't matter; save it for a PC thread.

Let's talk about why Asians are so successful. As a culture, they value education, hard work, and family values. They also don't seem too impressed with displays of material wealth.

What else?

I'm curious to know so I can learn from them.

 

As I teach, I can offer a limited perspective on this topic. In my experience, and indeed according to a common perception with every educator I have discussed this with, it is an accepted distinction: Children from Eastern Asian and Jewish families tend to place a higher emphasis on education, and the parents are usually a lot more involved in their children's education.

On the other hand, the tendency of those two groups, particularly the Eastern Asians, to stress certain aspects of education, ie. maths and sciences, is also notable. Of the many Eastern Asian students I teach, only a few aren't going into business or computers, and the vast majority of those are doing so as a result of parental direction. It should be noted that the demographic my students come from is very upper end of the affluence scale, and that probably has as much effect on the afore-mentioned emphasis.

In terms of intelligence, I have seen no racial distinction whatsoever. Nor would I expect to.

 

If you take into consideration that how many people live in the household. Usually in Asian Families, there are three generations living under one roof. Say that a family of four makes five bucks, and everybody works. There is twenty dollars. A family of six makes a dollar less. So they make twenty four dollars. That is higher than the family of four.

 

Pole - i've been criticized and called a racist for asserting that different cultures value certain traits differently than others...that kinda chills the conversation a bit.

 

I am Asian too. Cambodian infact.


I am one lazy mother. I did allright in school.

Major was talking about the schools. Yes, I think I was fortunate to go to a school in the Cy-Fair district all my life starting in Pre-K all the way to my senior year.

 

I'm not pole, but really? Any study of sociology and/or history shows that different cultures place differening amounts of emphasis on different aspects of culture. There are various reasons, many of them a result of traditional values originating from geographic effects on a resident populace. How else can you explain such non-challenged tendencies as , for example, extended families in Italy being much more common than in England? Or church attendance being significantly higher in Spain than in the USA?

 

MM, did I miss something in this thread. Seriously, I just looked over it, and I don't think anyone's throwing the term "racist" around yet. I hope nobody took my eugenics blather to be critiquing the thread. Just trying to add a few zany facts.

 

I don't think Major was trying to make this a politically correct thread. He just brought up a very valid point.

I think that quality of one's education does a lot to determine one's future success in life. You can't tell me that I didn't have a better experience going to Katy than I would have if I had gone to Yates. My best friend in high school was black and he finished in the top 10. In fact, out of our top quarter, I'd estimate that around 20% were non-Asian minorites. That's probably right around the same percentage, if not higher, than the actual student body.

I don't think that the quality of education is the only factor. I think a lot of it as to do with the way you were raised. My parents wanted me to do well in school, but didn't really push me. As long as I came home with As and Bs, they were happy. They knew I had other things going on like basketball, clubs, and a job. However, another good friend of mine had parents who wouldn't let him leave the house until 6:00 or so every night so that he could spend the time on his studies. Anything less than high honor role was unacceptable. As a result, he was our salutatorian (sp?).

I'm guessing that one's economic status (which is also tied into quality of education in that poor people normally have the poorer and worse schools) has a lot to do with it. When you're pretty much forced to find an after-school job, it makes it hard to work on your studies. It was for me anyway.

What I think may have a lot to do with it is not simply race, but background. Maybe one of the main reasons that Asian-Americans have more educational success than other minorities is how hard their parents had to work to get here. When you have parents that have gone through the trials and tribulations to come to America, that's going to obviously make them much more concerned and demanding when it comes to education.

I really don't think something as simple as saying someone's race determines success. There are way too many variables that go into it. Sorry if that's too P.C. for some of you.

 

This thread is a clear illustration of how misunderstanding fuels "-isms."

Correct me if I'm wrong, Trader_Jorge, but you're wondering why studies like this have to exist, why can't people just respect Asians for being the talented people they are.

And my fiance thought that this article was yet another slam to us 'non-ideal minorities', i.e. 'See, if ya'll worked as hard as them Asians, ya'll would have a better life and stop "asking" for hand-outs...'

Actually, I'm insulted by the tone of the article. It's almost as if its saying, and since this is a Rockets site, 'Well, yeah Yao is good, but look at how tall he is...' In other words, nevermind the hard work he put into his game, Yao's size is all that matters when it comes to his success to this point.

Just seems like another "scientific study" to calm the "fears" of "the public."

Where does the need to "justify" a group's accomplishments come from?

 

I went to bad middle and high schools. If you have to ask what makes a bad school bad, then there is no point in me trying to explain it (seriously, though, how do you leanr chemistry when there are no chemistry teachers? Teach yourself on your own time? Geometry? 8th grade history? Physics? 10th grade English?). Anyway, the failure rate was terribly high accross the board (and it was a broad board) and it now is being stripped of the label "school." Lol.

So, yeah, there were all ethnicities around - blacks and hispanics being the highest followed by whites and Asians. Very few of all of those went on to college.

I, personally, do not think it is genetics...but I don't really believe that to be the case for anyone regardless of race...so go ahead and try to label me PC if anyone wants to be an idiot.

Speaking specifically of Asians and why they do "well" (although I knew so many who would be called "stupid" losers" and all sorts of other things)...I think it is cultural/mindset related.

Keep in mind many Asians who come here do so to escape something or in an attempt to better the lives of their children (usually the first generations will not be so much better). People coming out of such mindsets will work much harder and instill values in their children without having to really vocalize it - I have seen it very often first hand. So, yeah, of course that plays a role with some.

As far as family pressure/importance of education...again, it just depends. I have experienced a huge range. Unless you want to generalize, then, you cannot say just Asians in general. I will say that the more successful Asians (along with the more successful anything) will generally come from stronger homes (in one way or another). Silly to even have to type that.

I just don't see a genetics argument. I think such things are pointless.

Pole,

Are you saying that not valuing material wealth is a good thing and leads to smarter people? What ar you, a socialist? A communist? Lol.

 

Hmmm....if I find the link, I'll link you. I think it was avg income per person or something. Take into account that alot of Asians, educated or not, are entreprenuers. I think the % is probably high.

In my family, only 2 generations lived under one roof. And, when my grandparents lived with us, they didn't work at all. They live with my uncles now.

Not speaking to anyone in particular, but let's not turn this into a thread that criticizes Asian success. Most seem to have worked hard and knew what it took to succeed in America. Hard work, integrity and education.

 

Definitely more PC to say that then to say there are inherent physical and mental differences among us.

Socio-cultural differences is what seperates the educated from the uneducated, imo.

Also, I don't know if this is common in other ethnic groups, but Asians have alot of pride. My parents and their friends always tell me "Don't do this and that (bad stuff). Not only will that shine a bad light on yourself, but also all Asians. If you get caught stealing, other people will think all Asians steal true or not. Be proud and do what is right."

 

socialist? communist?

I think more of an extremely lazy anarchist......but I'm trying to work harder.

Not to become a non-lazy anarchist though.....I'm pretty sure I want to be a totalitarian when I grow up. Just as long as I don't have to answer to anyone.

 

Some of yall make me sick sometimes...really.

I don't know if I'm more pissed off that some people are HELL BENT on proving that blacks are inferior or that they try to camaflauge it though stats and surveys.

GO ON AND SAY IT... Blacks and latinos aren't as smart as whites or asians!
Get it off your chest, don't be b****es! Screw an accumulation of polls that I was never polled in, a bunch of stats that I was never included in, or a bunch of rhetorical bullsh!t that is has been conjured up to make some white dude feel better because of his inadequacies.

My father quit school in the 8th grade to take care of his sickly mother and his sisters after his father had left. Does that mean that he didn't emphasize education? Hell naw, it means that he emphasized feeding his family without the luxury of a community that viewed his as a human being at the time. His grandfather WAS a slave and was killed trying to escape to be with his family. So if within my family tree there was not more profound consideration given to coorperation and conflict in general evolutionary processes or how capitalism will be ultimately destroyed by its own inherent contradictions, my bad...

.... but they had **** to do.

to some of you I apologize for this

others of you, can kiss my dumb ass.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that Asians are smarter than other races.

They have always been more advanced and more civilized than whites, blacks, hispanics, etc.

If people can't handle facts of life, then they need to learn how. Who cares anyway? Each person is responsible for their own destiny. If you aren't born as smart as somebody else, that just means you have to work harder. Deal with it!

 

Or ask a BBS to help you with a paper.

 

BRAVO! That is exactly what I was thinking. If you're too chicken **** to come out and say, "I think the black race is inherently dumber than the white race," then shut the hell up.

Don't hide! Speak your mind. Don't be a closet hata.

 

AB and Jeff...

Maybe I missed something. I didn't get your view of anything said here on a 1st go over, and a quick review hasn't helped...So, for my benefit, please, which posts do you take as implying that blacks and hispanics aren't as smart as whites or asians?

I have seen some remarks which could be interpreted to read as asians are smarter, and at least one that out and out said it, and I disagree, but I have yet to see any even bring up blacks or latinos in a seperate context from whites in general. It's quite possible I missed something, but either way I would be interested to know the source of your reactions.

 

So that's what 'idiotic statement' means, thanks for the example RAMON!!