Chronic: Texans coaches deserve much blame; Carr being Carr

just don't call me late for dinner, heard we are having samwiches.

/last samwich joke I promise

 

it's a reference to Danica Patrick's soundbyte, "stupid idiot".

Rome plays the hell out of it like he does everything else.

 

Rome over does things? I hadn't noticed.

 

Five stars!

 

<i>(We're supposed to be using this thread to appease our egos with gratuitous insults at David Carr, his white gloves, and his new club. In that spirit, allow me to indulge myself in a generally-frowned-upon repost.)</i>

It seems Panthers fans are arguing amongst themselves concerning the validity of one David Carr as a starting NFL Quarterback. Well, we're no stranger to these discussions! Dealing with David Carr as your starting QB runs a vicious cycle, not at all dissimilar to the grieving cycle. Perhaps, in the spirit of good neighbor-ness, we ought to pass on the knowledge we've gained to our fellow sufferers in the Land of Charles:

The David-Carr-Is-Our-Starting-QB Process<ul><li><b>Denial.</b> In this stage your mind refuses to grasp all the tell-tale signs pointing to the sucktitude of your favorite team's starting QB. Other issues are always there, offering false hope that the problem is not with your QB.</li><li><b>Anger.</b> The anger may directed at your pathetic quarterback, at those who drafted, traded for, or signed him, or misdirected (via lingering denial) at the others who don't appear to be performing well (like your team's offensive line or running game).</li><li><b>Bargaining.</b> In this stage you're generating alternative scenarios in your mind. <i>Perhaps if he only takes three sacks this week, completes 80% of his 4-yard dump-off passes, and only throws one pick, his stats will look good, and if we can get a special teams touchdown or three and the defense holds up maybe we can win,</i> you think to yourself.</li><li><b>Depression.</b> You want your team to be good so badly, but you despair of it happening any time this decade. At this stage, one might still be lighting up the Inernet bulletin boards with spirited defenses of Carr, or perhaps the decision to acquire, keep, or extend Carr, or perhaps you're posting pictures of every QB you'd rather have on your team other than Carr, or perhaps you're obsessing over one QB specifically. Whatever the symptoms look like, they all point to the same thing: Overexposureto-Carr-Disorder (OCD). Folks with OCD have been known to post in circles the same argument, with spirit, fire and vitriol, for two or three dozen pages. 800 posts and piles of expletives and insults to people they've never met later, they're left wondering what happened. Well, we know what happened. You got David Freaking Carr as your QB. That's what happened.</li><li><b>Acceptance.</b> Acceptance only happens after David Carr is gone. Then, everyone who defended him feels like a big dope, everyone else good-naturedly rubs it in, and everyone becomes friends again.</li></ul>We don't know how long this process can generally take, but the only other documented case (and BOY, is it documented!) took just over five years to run its course.

 

Here's another fantasy analysis, referring to Carolina's TE Jeff King:

Decent matchup for him but keep in mind it's David Carr.

This is all funny, but the sad thing is the Texans not only drafted this guy, they extended him (for the glorification of Kubiak's massive ego). He seems to be the laughing stock of the league.

 

I think one of the major reasons Carr is getting completely ripped on by the media is because of Schaub's relative success. I think the blame is being shifted away from the O-Line because of what Matty has been able to accomplish thus far.

Had Schaub been sacked 4 times a game with the Texans stumbling to a 1-3 start, then everyone would continue blaming the line. However, its becoming more apparent to everyone that Carr was indeed a big problem as well...and it really doesnt help that he is continuing to have the same issues he had in Houston, despite being on a "better" team.

 

Yes, they count. However, at the end of this season if Mario is sitting on 5 sacks no one outside of Houston will say he had a great year because he hurried and chased around the QB. I highly doubt Kubiak will even say that if Mario is sitting on a low sack total to be honest. He is not going to be judged that way and we both know that.

So do you deny that the bust label will be there with him (outside of Houston) if he doesn't start racking up heavy sack seasons? Maybe bust is the wrong term...but not living up to draft status. #1 picks have higher expectations that anyone else.

And I would not say he is a great DE yet. I fully agree with you on the impact that he has made this season. He has been playing solid ball (not great, but solid). But you don't draft players #1 to be solid...you draft them #1 to be great, right? He went #1 in a stud draft...he has high expectations. I'm sure if you even asked Mario would he consider his season successful with a low sack total that he would say no.

 

who cares?

 

You honestly don't think Mario or the coaching staff doesn't care if the guy they took #1 to be a pass rushing DE doesn't get sacks? Come on now..let's be real. This is no knock on the impact that he has had so far (which has been solid, not great), but let's not say it isn't important if the "pass rushing" DE that they picked actually gets sacks or not.

Are you really arguing that it isn't important for a DE picked #1 in the draft to get sacks? THEY DRAFTED HIM TO BE A PASS RUSHER!!!!

PASS RUSHER, not guy that gets doubled and lets others get sacked, or guy that does a solid job stopping the run, etc (all of which are good things)...but PASS RUSHER. That is why he went #1, with the expectation that he would be on QB's like Michael Jackson on little boys. It's called being a defensive gamebreaker, which is why defensive guys go #1...not to be solid and do things that you could draft someone later on to do. Sorry dude, but sacks are kinda important for a pass rusher to get. He was drafted to put opposing QB's on their butts, and one of the ways to guage that is via sacks. It's one of the ways that they are judged...not the only way, but clearly one of them. Especially when you are taken #1 in the draft...i.e. with higher expectations. I can't even believe you are arguing that is doesn't matter if he has sacks or not....

 

Yes.

That's fair. I think he's a great DE--but I'm basing that partially on the development I see and where I think that's heading. As far as how he's played thus far this year, whining about sack numbers or draft pick status (on which you and others and I disagree about as far apart as we could get) are about the only way I could fathom someone fabricating a way to complain about this guy's performance. The DL has been superb; Mario has been superb. Year 2 has clearly, so far, been superior to year 1. Let's see what he builds himself into, m'kay? Unless, of course, you subscribe to this ridiculous "project player" nonsense. In that case, we'll just agree to disagree.

 

Dude, all I am saying is I expect a pass rushing DE to get sacks..thats all..especially when that's what the coaches, GM and owner say we drafted him for (to improve the abysmal pass rush). I don't see anything wrong with saying that. The other stuff he is doing is fine, but he is supposed to get sacks too. For comparison sakes, it's great that Yao scores points, but as a center he is supposed to get boards too, right?

Draft pick status will always be relevant with Mario. That is one of the prices of going #1.

 

Icehouse, do you realize the articles you submitted, you bolded the areas that the coaches and GM talked about adding a pass rusher . That means they want someone that pressures the QB. They arent specifically talking about drafting someone that sacks the quarterback. In fact, no where in thoes articles does it say that they expect Mario to rack up the sacks. They are talking about someone who can disrupt a QB's control of the game...and thus far, he is doing just that.

 

Two years from now, M&M are gonna be beasts! We WiLL have quite possibly the MOST dominant DL in football. Mario is on course and showing progress every game. Don't you all hear post game comments from guys he's lining up against? They're getting beat up that means Mario isn't playing paddycake with them. Hell, he may just make Travis Johnson into a serviceable player instead of a major bust. Jury still out on that one though. Just relax everyone, when the execution meets the technique, the results and fruits of labors soon follow. 'Mobi is playing off Mario and vice versa. They're only going to get better. Have to be just a little bit patient. Screw the naysayers! But, hey just my 2 cents worth.

 

I haven't read most of this thread, but are there any other DE's in the league that are considered great pass rushers but simply disrupt and don't get a lot of sacks? It seems like if a guy is consistently disrupting things, he's going to get sacks, but I could be wrong - I don't really follow that stuff very well. Do they track hurries and things like that and if so, how does Mario compare in that regard to other DEs?

On the surface, it just sounds a lot like the "Reggie Bush is a great decoy that opens things up for everyone even though he doesn't get stats" but defensive statistics are a lot more complicated to track/measure effectively.

 

Hurries would be a nice statistic to see.

Dwight Freeney, since Mario has been in the league, has amassed 6.5 sacks. Mario, in that same span, has recorded 6.5 sacks.

34 solo tackles for Dwight.
44 solo tackles for Mario.

I think most people would consider freeney an elite DE.

 

Mario got a crucial sack today. Just saying...

 

Not sure if this is helpful but might be worth a look

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl.php

 

Some things never change.

 

sure did. It was HUGE