[Chronic]Spanoulis says he won't return to Rockets

I am a Moneyball sports guru and I use the same type of data Morey uses. Based on this Spanoulis is better than Rafer Alston. It is a statistical fact, not an opinion. Hollinger knows it, Morey knows, I know it. It is the opinion of a former NBA head coach and some clutch forum fans that chooses a different view, on opinion, not on advanded stats metrics, because that says Alston isn't as good as Spanoulis.

That is why I am a BBall scientist, because it is always better to apply a scientific analysis and approach along with the naked eye than it is to use the method SamFisher uses, which is blatantly obvious.

Anyone reading his posts here that is objective can see that he is not objective when it comes to Spanoulis.

Numbers are objective when used simply as what they are, when used for whatever your argument is in a skewed method they are misleading being propagated by someone's invalid argument. I think any rational and logical person can see the difference.

 

You're absolutely right. There's nothing left to argue. He's just another Euro that was great overseas, but can't cut it here. Hopefully, we will be able to use his contract in a trade.

 

Where does Feigan say Morey is going to force him to stay in Houston? What you put in bold doesn't say that.

(As I've said, I imagine they will continue to try to convince him to come back. Failing that, they will likely come to some sort of agreement, allowing him to sign in Greece. I don't see it as a precedent-setting issue. Selecting foreign players has always required consideration of their other options. For successful players, the threat to break an active contract and go home does not seem likely to become too common or too much of an issue. It could apply more to struggling prospects, but most would not want to give up so quickly. -- Jonathan)

 

I love you man !!! Can I have your Bud Light?

You're right, he did not say force him, that is completly my boo boo....



DD

 

It translates to 3.2 TOPG and 5.8 APG in 37.1 MPG (Alston's PT) using Hollinger numbers.

That's

4.1 TO per 48 minutes

Compare:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/playe...litType=9&qualified=Y&yearsExp=-1&sortOrder=3

1
* Marcus Williams , NJN
79 16.6 142 1.8 5.2 1.83 .20
2
Steve Nash , PHX
76 35.3 287 3.8 5.1 3.08 .20
3
Dwight Howard , ORL
82 36.9 317 3.9 5.0 .50 .22
4
Eddy Curry , NYK
81 35.2 295 3.6 5.0 .23 .12
5
T.J. Ford , TOR
75 29.9 231 3.1 4.9 2.58 .44
6
* Tyrus Thomas , CHI
72 13.4 94 1.3 4.7 .43 .49
7
Ben Gordon , CHI
82 33.0 249 3.0 4.4 1.19 .26
8
Jamaal Tinsley , IND
72 31.0 200 2.8 4.3 2.47 .58
9
Corey Maggette , LAC
75 30.5 201 2.7 4.2 1.04 .32
10
Amare Stoudemire , PHX
82 32.8 232 2.8 4.1 .36 .34
11
Josh Smith , ATL
72 36.8 227 3.2 4.1 1.04 .44
12
Andre Iguodala , PHI
76 40.3 261 3.4 4.1 1.66 .58
13
Tracy McGrady , HOU
71 35.8 213 3.0 4.0 2.15 .43
14
Monta Ellis , GSW
77 34.3 221 2.9 4.0 1.44 .60
15
Deron Williams , UTA
80 36.9 246 3.1 4.0 3.03 .32


Quite a bit of "horrible turnover machines" in the NBA.

 

LOL, quite rich, thank you very much, b-ball Alchemist.

Tell me how do you factor in crotchhumping your favorite players into your stats?

My god, talk about not objective - but Ok Alchemist - if I am not objective and you are stats based, tell me why his stat line for this year was worse than a can of stale farts?

Surely an objective observer like you would be able to tell us.

LOL - the guy with the absolute worst stats on the team, and you're telling me that you hug his nuts because you're a basketball scientist and you only use objective evidence as a self proclaimed "moneyball sports guru"?

Explain, this will be very amusing. You seem to be a guru of hairy greek nutriding, so I am having a hard time reconciling.

 

What the hell? "I am a Moneyball sports guru?" If you're a sports guru, then I'm 8 feet tall, have a 40 inch vertical, and can make jump shots from halfcourt. Hollinger has never said that Spanoulis is any good. His PER, TS%, TO rate, and +/- are all atrocious.

The fact that you would say that numbers are objective shows that you are not an expert in Moneyball. The CARDINAL RULE of modeling and numerical projections in the social sciences is that the numerical results are to be INTERPRETED, and that the INTERPRETATION is the most important part. The numbers by themselves mean NOTHING. This is well documented in economics and political science. There are no such thing as objective numbers, because raw data is meaningless unless interpreted, and obviously interpretations are not objective. Besides, you have never shown us any of your data, methods, or interpretations. Really, you have no credibility at all.

I think anybody who knows anything about numerical models of social science knows that it is an inexact science at best and random speculation at worst. Your "analysis" right now sits at the level of random speculation.

 

Apparently you didn't read about the last 3 pages of the discussion.

 

And apparently you didn't pay attention to Spanoulis' NBA season.

 

Oh, I did. All you did was give the voting totals of some biased Europeans (how the hell does Papaloukas go ahead of Gasol and Dirk? Papaloukas isn't even in the NBA, while Dirk is the freaking MVP) and show that Spanoulis turned it over at a comparable rate to star players. Well guess what, Spanoulis is not a star, he is a role player, and as a role player he can't make as many mistakes because he's supposed to support his teams stars.

Comparing his turnover issues to Yao's is total BS. I don't see Spanoulis averaging 25 ppg by dominating opponents in the low post, and Yao's turnover rate was far lower anyway (13% to 19%).

The data you presented is laughable, and your interpretation, when you bothered to give it, is completely skewed (i.e. comparing Yao's turnovers to Spanoulis's turnovers).

 

Kelly Dwyer on the Hollinger European stats translations to the NBA metrics data:


"Off the top of my head, Hollinger's translated stats have been pretty much spot on for Nocioni, Oberto, Udrih, Varejao, and some others I can't remember. The ones that are off are the guys that don't get consistent (even 12 mpg) playing time to have the sample size count, like Maceo Baston in Indiana."


I guess you need to inform Sports Illustrated that Kelly Dwyer is a hack since he uses this method too and all.

 

Best international player for play inside of Europe during the year 2005-2006. Is that really a difficult concept?

 

Worst PER and Roland Rating on the entire Rockets team, 2nd worst in +/- in 2006-2007, is that really a difficult concept?

 

Did you really classify that list as all "star players"? Perhaps you should look at the list of all the players again before calling all of them stars?

In fact a rookie point guard had 5.2 topg at 48 minutes and using the Hollinger translation Spanoulis is at 4.1 topg per 48 minutes.

Funny how that rookie point guard had no trouble getting PT with JASON KIDD on his team but Spanoulis could not get PT with RAFER ALSTON on his.


I know, "no good NBA head coach would ever play such a crazy turnover machine rookie at point guard like Spanoulis. No NBA coach. Especially with quality like Rafer Alston ahead of him."

 

Yes it is. The inside game in Europe is very different from the NBA. The lane is different putting more importance on inside players mid-range jump shots and taking the emphasis off size and strength. Your statistics will not account for this.

You will not find an NBA GM that would take Paploukas over Gasol or Dirk.

 

So you're back to blaming JVG and the lack of PT. Otherwise, either Spanoulis was an atrocious player in Europe too, or the models are no good, because Spanoulis was an atrocious NBA player.

Now, why should JVG give any playing time to someone who was given a chance after Snyder's injury, did horribly with that PT, and then complained to the media after he was subsequently benched for poor play? You're getting cause and effect confused; it was not that Spanoulis played poorly because he didn't get PT, he didn't get PT because he was given some meaningful PT and played very poorly. Simply writing off the errors as "lack of playing time" is fallacious because lack of playing time correlates strongly in most cases to poor play.

 

Kelly Dwyer on the Hollinger European stats translations to the NBA metrics data:


"Off the top of my head, Hollinger's translated stats have been pretty much spot on for Nocioni, Oberto, Udrih, Varejao, and some others I can't remember. The ones that are off are the guys that don't get consistent (even 12 mpg) playing time to have the sample size count, like Maceo Baston in Indiana."


Sports Illustrated knows less than SamFisher.

 

Taking things out of context does not equal a solid debating skill IMHO.

 

Um... let's take a look at Spanoulis's ACTUAL turnover rate... 5.2/48 minutes. Would have been good for worst in the league. All of Marcus Williams's other stats are far superior to Spanoulis's, including TURNOVER RATE, TS%, Assist rate, PER, you name a stat, Williams did better than Spanoulis.

 

"ONE good international game in his pro career." "Historically bad outside shooting and turnover rates in his pro career." - referring to BEFORE he came to Houston.

This is what I am arguing here.

This is what I have thoroughly and 100% proven here is FALSE.

I have taken nothing out of context. Bringing up something that is an entirely different subject is the same failed skill of debating SamFisher uses. Bait and switch only works when debating with someone that also doesn't use facts and logic.

Did you not comprehend that the Hollinger stats are TRANSLATED stats?