Based on what are you deducing that he trusts them more than he did in the past? Based on the team's success? It was already presented to you that Kobe's usage rating is the same as it has always been. The use of arbitrary in that context isn't about 'opinion'; it's that you are just randomly designating a determined point at which you decided Kobe became a superstar - a point that conveniently correlates to the moment his team also upgraded the roster and became good. I've backed all of my claims with historical evidence. Again, you yourself just said earlier in this thread that Kobe was a superstar. This is just regurgitation of the same rhetoric you are becoming accustomed to. How exactly did you want him to "trust" them? Give them more touches to create for themselves? I've asked you this numerous times - what was he to do with those players? You've only responded with obfuscatory rhetoric. How was he to trust David Wesley and a broken Bobby Sura, and Luther Head anymore? Hell, everyone here can recall that in the fourth quarter of games in the Dallas series, he had to bring the ball up himself as well because our guards couldn't get it up reliably. Was he at fault for that too? Everyone is well aware of Tracy's faults and he has worn out his welcome here. But this incessant need to take cheap shots at the old guy while he's clearly down just to reaffirm some sense of optimism in the new guy is tiresome. Especially when it involves revisionism. The answer to this entire discussion is simple. I will concede everything I have said if you can just tell me what you wanted Tracy McGrady to do with David Wesley, Bobby Sura, and Ryan Bowen. That's it. What did you want him to do. Don't shift the blame to JVG or say you just don't think his 'style' is conducive to winning. Or that he didn't "trust" them. Tell me what you wanted him to do with them and this whole thing will be over.
I agree, obviously Ron is better this year but in Tracy's defense you cant expect him to play at his full level of potential if he's hurt. Honestly, I felt as though he was faking in the beginning but clearly if he needed surgery he was not. So lets not just DOG the man out. In the past he may not have been the greatest but he was our MVP. I think his year was the year that we were robbed in the first round. You know when Jeff Van Gundy alsmost lost his job for calling out the refs. Well not sure if you all know this but Tim Donaghy admitted that the Dallas/Houston series when we were up 2-0 was one of the series that was fixed. To me that was his best season as a Rocket. Will he get another chance to prove himself? Remains to be seen!!!!
Not sure how that usage rate is calculated, but it looks to me like that was based upon the number of shots he takes. I am fine with him a a finisher and shooter, that is his role on the team. But it is how those shots are created that I am talking about. Phil Jackson has been trying to get him for years to become more of a team player, I think he became a team player about 2 years ago....before they got Gasol, and yes, that is when I think he became a superstar. It is not about trusting them with the shot, after Tmac creates it, it is about trusting them to create for each other, and let them be involved in the decisions when running the offense. As an example, look at the Rockets now, they share the ball, the shot can come from anyone, the PASS can come from anyone, that is what I am talking about. I understand that is what you think. To me, I think people are now taking a good hard look at just what Tmac has done in Houston, some good some bad, and reflecting on it. And since the view of him is negative at the moment people tend to look at the bad things more than the good. He had his moments, but at the end of the day, he failed to lead the team anywhere, and as the highest paid player, he gets the large dose of blame. . Were those the only 3 players on the team? And how can you NOT talk about JVG when he is the one putting Ryan Bowen on the floor? It is not shifting the blame it is just telling the truth....JVG bought into the entire...Tmac do everything mode, and it ultimatly failed. This whole thing will never be over, because you and I do not agree.....we don't see eye to eye. You think talent is more important than chemistry/trust, and I don't........ If it only took talent, Gary Payton, Karl Malone, Shaq and Kobe would have won a ring, but they didn't have teamwork. Whatever Cabbage....at the end of the day if this Rocket's team gets out of the playoffs without Tmac......it will fan the flames of the team being better without him.....and his .....HOG THE BALL STYLE of play. DD
Aretest plays better defense than tmac, he hustles more than tmac, he has more steals than tmac, he is a better shooter than tmac, and he is way more physical than tmac. Tmac passes better. Hmmmm.....Looks like artest wins this one boys and girls.
I can't believe you've somehow been living in a cave for the last couple of years and missed all the news reports about Jackson saying he had to sit Kobe down and talk to him about trusting his teammates. Yes, the Lakers have more talent. But that's not the only change--Kobe's changed too.
DD, I hate to say it, but you keep slamming on JVG. Did you see the players we had before JVG came? We were capped strapped because of the moves CD and RudyT made. You have to be a blind Rockets fan not to see that. The only 3 decent players we had on this team before JVG came were Stevie, CAT, and Yao. Who else did we have? We traded Stevie, Cat, and Cato for Tmac and JHoward which left us cap strapped. Let me remind you that it was JVG that cleaned this whole messed up. We had Mo Taylor, Vin Baker, Moochie Norris, JHoward, and a bunch of crap on that bench that made a crap load of money. Unless, you were some idiot GM, no way would you take on any of those players. You keep bring up that it was JVG's fault that he signed the likes of Bowen, Wesley, Barry, etc... But what other options did he have when we were cap strapped with no tradable assets? As Rockets fan, we should be greatful that JVG and CD were able to dump those guys and start the rebuilding process while still able to win games. The losing seasons we had were a result of injuries to Yao and Tmac. So in essence, like Cabbage said, what could Tmac really of done? Its like he said, its damn if you and damn if you dont. I am not trying to make excuses for the guy as he is far from perfect, but it was amazing what he did for the Rockets with such little talent around him.
While I agree that Artest is has a more well rounded game at this point in their respective careers, I don;t think its even comparable. Before he quit on us McGrady was one of maybe five players in the NBA that could win a game single handedly for you. If salary were equal, there isn't one GM in the NBA that last year would have taken Artest over McGrady. As far as chemistry, I don't think there was anyone on this board during the streak last year that was calling T-Mac a chemistry killer.
HA! So, if you were Tmac, you would trust the likes of Rafer, Bowen, Wesley, Hayes, and an aging, offenseless Deke? I am sure Kobe would trust them though right? Since he is the greatest thing since MJ. How many playoff series has Kobe won after the Shaq trade and before the Gasol trade? NONE! Did he blow some playoff leads? Yup Did he disappear in the 4th quarter of some? Yup......
And guess what the magic number for Kobe and the Lakers is? When he takes more than 20 shots or so a game their record is much, much worse than when he keeps it under control and fires off fewer shots. It doesn't matter who's on your team. One guy can't do it all. What's T-Mac going to do, score 70 points every night? That's ridiculous. Trust your teammates, get them the ball and the result might not be a win but I guarantee it will be closer than it would be if it's just one guy firing away. T-Mac's never been the type of guy who makes his team better and that's why Orlando shipped his ass out.
You don't think having capable big men once again factored in just a tad bit into creating shots for Kobe? He had to create for himself pre-Bynum/Gasol, just like Grady. Now you're saying he doesn't have to and applauding it yet overlooking the factors facilitating this change. Ok, so he suddenly became a superstar last year and they also coincidentally got good players too that year. So it was the perfect storm. lol ok. Right, so you wanted David Wesley, Bobby Sura, and Jon Barry to create for each other? Gotchya. That might have a tad bit to do with the fact that we actually have decent players now. This is becoming a broken record. Basically revisionism based on the outcome. I am almost sure you weren't saying any of this stuff about him back in '05 or when times were good. Are you kidding me?? Who was JVG supposed to put on the floor then? Clarence Weatherspoon? What exactly did you want him to do? They had absolutely nothing on that roster yet you somehow, some way, are sticking to this script that it was somehow their fault, yet you don't give any suggestions of what you think should have been done. Don't you think the fact that he even had to put Ryan Bowen on the floor speaks volumes about just how bad our roster was? How are you not getting this? Once more, tell me what you suggest that team should have done. That's another strawman. Me nor anyone else is claiming that "it only takes talent" and doesn't take teamwork. I'm merely refuting your revisionist assessment of the past. Sure, noone here is claiming the team is better with him.
Or it might have something to do that without T-Mac playing ball hog the team can finally pass the ball and play Adelman's offense.
lol ok. well they're pretty lucky he coincidentally changed last year as they got some new talent, so they could put it all together. sure thing.
And I guess it was just pure coincidence that Jackson was talking to the media about his one-on-one's with Kobe about sharing the ball. Either that or he was lying completely about those meetings taking place.
Damn, I didn't think of that. If they had done that last year, maybe they wouldn't have sucked so bad to end out the year. Oh wait, they won 22 games in a row. Maybe Rafer Alston wouldn't have been worthless all year. Oh wait, he was playing absolutely out of his mind the second half of last year. Maybe Aaron Brooks would have shot better. Oh wait, he wasn't even on the court. Maybe Scolandry might have actually met expectations. Oh wait, they exceeded anyone's wildest expectations. Maybe Deke would have put up 20/10 if only Tracy fed him in the post. Oh wait, Deke has no offensive skills. Maybe Wafer would have produced like he is this year. Oh wait, Wafer was 6'3 last year and his name was Luther Head. Damn, if only Tracy hadn't ball hogged so much last year and actually played Adelman's offense, we would have exploded! He held everyone back!!1
Yeah, there's a lot of factors that go into a basketball game. They're complicated animals. But just because there's a lot of factors doesn't mean that there aren't factors which loom larger and are more significant. Tracy's a bad fit for the system because he dominates the ball. But he's also a career loser. Orlando got rid of him for precisely that reason and now Houston is suffering through the exact same syndrome.
Orlando got rid of McGrady because he demanded to be traded. It wasn't McGrady who held those Orlando teams back, you can blame that on Grant Hill's contract.
That's fresh. You first say that there's alot of factors that go into a basketball game but then conclude that Tracy is a career loser completely neglecting the essence of your first statement. Okay. By the way, they didn't get rid of him. You saying that repeatedly won't make it true. He expressed that he wasn't going to re-sign with the team in his opt out year and basically forced their hand into trading him. But of course revisionism is great and they didn't want him all along, right?
I think it's pretty apparent there has never been a thread in the history of this board that is more appropriate for a mention of that movie.
