if yao can't play...and mohammed can...the mohammed is greater than yao, all other things being equal. having yao on your roster because he is a good player when he's healthy..but he's never healthy...is worthless to me as a fan. you ask a lot of questions i'll try to answer: i would not trade for melo without some assurance that he's going to sign here. but if melo were willing to sign long term, then i'd trade for him absolutely and seek to build around him. players like melo attract other stars in today's NBA. he's a first/second team all-NBA talent. you need one of those (at least) if you want to be a real contender. ilgauskus didn't play at yao's size. look at players who played at 7'5" and greater. all of them...every single one...had limited minutes and massive recurring injuries. again, we knew that going in. we knew that when we drafted him. i'm not talking about dumping him. i'm talking about listening to offers. but i wouldn't re-sign him because he hasn't shown me he can play enough to justify a contract.
so sounds like you would take a diaw or mohammed at 9 mill per vs yao next year. I disagree.I think a decent yao for the stretch run FEB-JUN is better than anything mohammed or diaw could do to contribute to a championship. Not talking about NOV DEC NBA schedule. I thought that was pretty much a foregone conclusion melo is only a half year rental. I agree if we could get melo long term he could be a great piece. Shawn bradley played until 33. Even walton played until 35 despite having similar foot issues. Im not saying walton was a force when he was 35 on the celts but he did play from 30-35. I disagree and would sign yao still to at least 6-8 per year for 2 years with an option on 3rd year. He can come in around FEB each year and help us close out for the playoffs and the stretch run. even if it means playing half a season he will give us more come playoff time fresh than diaw mohammed villanueva so on and so forth. I am looking at the whole picture including the playoffs. FEB - JUN is what it's about. Yeah 1-2 seed in a perfect world and the only time we did that we still had to go 7 games with the knicks in the finals.and also had to slip by somehow and not play the sonics. Seeding is great and all but it's about the close in many ways. If the rest of the team can't get us close enough to the playoffs to close out with yao, then we dont deserve the 8 seed.. and need to take a deep look in the mirror anyway
Shawn Bradley and Bill Walton never played the kind of minutes Yao has. Yao is a better player than both, I believe. But I think his useful life as an NBA player is pretty damn near well complete. no way in the world i'd give 2 more years to Yao. no way. the man has missed too much time as it is over the past 5 seasons. he's out right now with no timetable for return. i can't see it. i used the phrase, Fool's Gold to describe building around Yao over and over again during this last offseason. I stand by that. It's a mistake to commit resources to this guy at this point. I'm not happy about that. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.
Talks about signing and saving Yao for the playoffs is fine and all, but you have to remember, at the rate we are going, we will be extremely lucky to even MAKE the playoffs.
meant to add Shaq is 38 7 foot 2 super big and is still contributing. He was 34 when they won at Miami. pau gasol plays in the summer stuff, is over 7 foot and is coming up on 30 and just now entering his prime you are talking about the past I am talking about the future. no one said to 'build around yao' going forward next year.I am talking diaw /mohammed 6-8 a year money. heck shaq is making 1.5 mil and is still contributing at 38 350 lbs ! ! Yao could be had for cheap at a loyalty discount! That has value ! I get your point just saying what needs to be said about him since he is still 30/31. Look at your calendar. it's dec 10.We all said we couldn't be running yao into the ground in december because it's about the stretch run. Lakers experienced some success with this strategy with bynum. Only using bynum in the playoffs. If our team is not enough to get even 8 seed then the yao factor is almost irrelevant anyway. Afterall it is a team. I know you are pissed about the last few years but your strategy seems to be 'buy high and sell low' not sure how sound that is.
that's another reason why we shouldnt go for melo. Melo would be a rental for half year and even if we get melo, are we going to make the playoff this year with melo? What does melo give us the rest of the way ? 10 more wins maybe then the team we are fielding now? is that enough for the playoffs this year? Probably not ! so then we don't have melo next year, and we don't have yao next year and are holding a bag of crap in our hands. That won't feel too good. We knew yao was an injury threat from day 1 the same way I knew my high school girlfriend was bat **** insane... But damn was she fine!! The potential of 7 foot 6 and that he is still 30/31 to me is worth waay much more than what a typical 6-8 mill a year player brings... and i;m willing to wait until FEB for yao to come in and help us in the stretch run this year. to me it just feels like a no brainer to hold on to yao. Yeah I am some monkey behind a computer and my opinion doesnt add up to dried s***. I know.
I don't really understand the disappointment that he isn't going to be playing this year. A title (or serious contention of a title) wasn't going to happen unless the stars aligned... probably would have involved us getting Melo or another solid star. Or having a rookie/sophomore break out like Aaron Brooks did last year. Realistically our goal should have been making it to the second round. Having said that... if Yao can't play for a significant part of this season, it's actually not the end of the world. We can call this season a trial year for Yao to see if he actually has the ability to play basketball at some level (and from seeing the first few games of the season, there is hope). Lets not give up on making the playoffs or anything, but lets forget about making any serious run at at a title. Yao's contract ends after this year. If he doesn't have it at all, we can just call it a career for Yao and we start looking for our next young big (maybe Jordan Hill). On the other hand, if he's averaging 15-20 a game the last month of the season and the playoffs then perhaps we lock him up for 5-10 mil a season for 2-3 years. But if he's somewhere in between. Like if he's playing at role player level. The guy still has range, that doesn't go away. And the guy still has size, which will always mean he can plug up the middle even if he's slower than normal. Look at Brad Miller, look at Mutombo playing into his 40s. He could be that guy for probably a few million a season. And we know Yao, he's not going to phone it in just because he's not making money anymore. Obviously it sucks if he can't go back to the 20 point per game guy we saw 2 years ago. But you have to look at the positives. No reason to give up on the guy completely.
1. look specifically at the history of the tallest players in league history..the guys that played at 7'5" and taller. 2. no kidding it's the past...BUT IT'S ALSO THE PRESENT!! do you honestly expect it to get better as he gets older? again, see point 1, above. 3. and i'm saying any money for a guy who you can't count on to stay healthy for any consistent period of time is money wasted. 4. my strategy is sell while you might still get something. assuming that something is worth it. if not...let it expire and reap whatever benefit comes from that. for the record...and most of those who've been on here long enough to know can back me up even if they didn't and don't agree with me...i've been saying all this for a very, very long time.
reasons we shouldnt give up on yao: ages are approx: shaq - 38 years old. Won championship at 34. 7 foot 2. STILL contributing. David robinson- Played until 38. Won championships at 34 and 38 missed a whole season due to injury. 7 foot 1 shawn bradley - played until 35, 7 foot 7 bill walton - played until 35 ,7 foot. similar foot injuries to yao wilt chamberlain - played until 37 , 7 foot 1 Jabbar - played until 42 ,7 foot 2 ,won 3 championships AFTER 38 Ilgauskas - 35 years old, 7 foot 2 ,missed a whole season and came back exact same injury as yao. STILL Contributing olajuwon - 7 foot (okay well maybe 6'10) won championships at 32/33 Yao born in 1980. It's 2010. How old does that make him? perspective children..perspective. Is this the thread where we jump the gun in DEC and run ming into the ground or trade him for garbage?
umm manute bol played until 32. Umm mark eaton played until 36. How many guys not named muresan are over 7 foot 5?? not many. There best comparisons would be shawn bradley , shaq ,bol and maybe z. All of those were much older than yao is now !
If we trade for Melo and he doesn't agree to a contract extension, Morey is going to tell him that we will trade him to the team of his choice if he will go ahead and exercise his player option for next season. That way he gets his max deal under the old CBA and we get a huge trade exception that we can use after the new CBA is in place. And we get the opportunity to get Melo to agree to the 3-year extension for half a season. It's a no-lose deal for us as teams are going to be wanting to dump salary big time after the new CBA is put into place.
can we use Yao as a situational player like only use him off the bench when we need free-throws or when Miller/Hayes/Hill need a breather, give him the garbage minutes
Let's cut to the chase, some team will offer Yao more money than he's worth, so either the Rockets overpay him, or they lose him for nothing, or they trade him before the deadline.
I have a bad feeling that if we get rid of Yao he will magically play 70 games per season for someone else. However, if we keep him, 20 games per.
That might be true since Tmac never had a big injury when he played for other teams (raptors, magic, knicks, & pistons).
Unless Yao is totally done, i mean that he cannot play basketball at all. Otherwise, he will be signed at least 10 mil per year. One reason is that there is always potential of being healthy, another reason is the big market he is bringing with him. So, for all of you talking about dumping him or getting him cheap, forget about it.
It's not enough to look merely to what age they played...or how many seasons they sat on a bench taking a roster spot. Look at minutes. NONE OF THEM came even close to averaging the kind of minutes that Yao has. Injuries limited these guys' minutes in entirety, the same way they're limiting Yao's over the last 5 years. And remember...with Yao we're not just talking about NBA minutes. This guy, until recently, didn't get an offseason. He was busy playing for China. There is no comparison to Shaq here. None at all. Shaq, in nearly 20 seasons of hoops, never missed the kind of time Yao already has. 19 seasons in, that guy was still averaging right at 30 minutes per game...he's averaged playing 65 games per season over that entirety...and he's 40 years old. Over the last 5 seasons (not including this season), Yao has averaged 47 games per season...and he's 30. When Shaq was 30 he putting up about 38 minutes per game over roughly 70 games per season. Here are the guys who played at 7'5" and above in NBA history. Note that availability, limited minutes and injuries define them all except for the first guy who didn't play long enough to matter. http://sportige.com/top-10-tallest-...in-nba-history/ 6. Slavko Vranes - 1 season - only played one game..hardly worth mentioning. 5. Chuck Nevitt - 12 seasons - If you add up his career minutes played total you get 18 total games played. He never played more than 43 games in one season, about half an NBA season. RETIREMENT AGE: 34 4. Shawn Bradley - 12 seasons - Only after moving to Dallas in 1997 it seemed Bradley was picking up and really getting comfortable with the NBA game, but after a few seasons, like every tall and lanky player, injuries started mounting up on his back and legs and his playing time and availability slowly started diminishing until he eventually retired after 2004-2005 season. Like Yao, he put up more minutes per game while in his 20's...but when he got to his late 20's and 30's he was averaging right around 14 minutes per game. (I'LL NOTE TOO, THAT BRADLEY DIDN'T PLAY ANYWHERE CLOSE TO YAO'S WEIGHT). RETIREMENT AGE: 32 3. Yao Ming - 8 seasons - CURRENT AGE: 30 2. Gheorge Muresan - 6 seasons - the man played 50 games/season @ 21.9 minutes per game over the course of his career. NBA career stats: 6 seasons, 307 games, 21.9 minutes per game. In the last 2 seasons of his career he averaged 1 minute per game and 8.9 minutes per game, respectively. RETIREMENT AGE: 28 1. Manute Bol - 10 seasons Like most players on the list, after the first few healthy years Bol started missing large portions of the season due to injuries that eventually ended his career in the middle of the 94-95 season. His final 2 seasons were more of a teacher job for him, mentoring Shawn Bradley and Gheorge Muresan as they developed into legitimate NBA Centers. Manute averaged 18.7 minutes per game and averaged 62 games pers season. RETIREMENT AGE: 32
