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[Chron] Welcome back, James

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by room4rentsf, Nov 28, 2006.

  1. macfan

    macfan Member

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    This is a beautiful story about two cowboys, Jeff and Mike .....
     
  2. macfan

    macfan Member

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    All we're missing is the photoshop of JVG and MJ riding horses side by side.

    Where's a good photoshop when you need it? :)
     
  3. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    Yeah, Minny seems to be more interested in developing Foyle. But then did MJ get his no trade kicker from Minny?
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    I don't remember that happening much at all. Considering he had a higher eFG% than either Yao or Tracy that year though, he probably should have shot more, not less.

    But anyway, your comment on how he "definitely affected" offensive efficiency is true, because the Rockets becoming a far more efficient team with him on the court in 2005, not less.

    http://www.82games.com/04HOU4D.HTM

    In fact there was a huge net gain in both offensive and defensive efficiency when he was on the court. That's why the Rockets tried to get him back.

    So...what you're saying is: Alston is a bad shooter, but he passes to Yao, even though he shoots more, and that only shoots when he has to, which is more, and since he shoots more and shoots worse that makes up for it...:confused:

    I have to admit, it wasn't exactly a shocker to see you blame "basketball IQ" when you run out of ammo. Especially since there's no way to measure it (Alston's higher TO numbers are probably the best thing...but....).

    You know what I'm reminded of when people do that? I'm reminded of the old Superman TV show (George Reeves), where Superman was in a shootout, and the bad guys run out of ammo (since it just bounces of superman's chest, of course), so they throw their guns at him....that's what I think of with random allusions to "basketball IQ": Desperately tossing your gun at George Reeves (who would always duck, LOL).

    A more pertinent question is why were the Rockets banging down his door at midnight to replace Alston?
     
  5. choujie

    choujie Member

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    Please check again. Yao always had a much higher eFG% than James.
    http://www.82games.com/04HOU22A.HTM

    http://www.82games.com/04HOU4A.HTM

    Yao 55%, James 50%, Tmac is a littler lower at 47%. That' all before FTs is considerded. If you consider FT attempts and FTs made, both Yao and Tmac are more efficient than Mike James, not to mention Tmac took most of the last second bail out shots, which dropped his eFG as well.

    In that year, both James, Barry and Padgett, Deke had very impressive +/-, the biggest reason is our 2nd unit normally blew out other team's 2nd units. that only shows James could be a apark plug off the bench as a main scorer, it doesn't show he was a better staring PG than Sura.

    I never said James didn't contribute to Rox, I said he'd be a good 6man, but not a starting PG. James had success both in Detriot and Houston as backup PG, but he didn't have success as a starting PG.

    Even when he had his best year in Toronto, he couln't get more wins than last year's Rox when he had Bosh in the Least conference. Wolves are playing better now when they reduced his minutes. That should be enough to prove my points.

    It's not like James doesn't have the talent, but he doesn't know how to use his talent to play with super stars. That's a basketball IQ issue to me. Players like Jon Berry, Rober Horry know how with their basketball IQ.

    Again, [b/Tmac's quote: [/b]
    ``We want Mike James to be launching,'' Tracy McGrady said. ``That takes away from Kevin Garnett. That will help us out."

    In other words, when James is jacking up shots on Wolves, he takes away from KG, that will help Rox. When James was jacking up shots on Rox, he took away from Tmac and Yao, that helped opponents out.
     
  6. Van Gundier

    Van Gundier Member

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    TMac is using reverse psychology on Mike James. We don't want Mike James to be launching, TMac says we want him to be launching in order to bait him into "pass first" mode.

    The Rockets PG defense is not as good as their defense on big wings (with Battier and McGrady), so we prefer their big SG/SF to shoot more against Battier and their PG to spend less time burning Rafer.

    Less shots for Mike James = More shots for Ricky Davis.

    We definitely want Ricky Davis to be launching.
     
  7. choujie

    choujie Member

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    Wrong.

    Alston doesn't shoot more. James shot 751 times in 1859 minutes he played for Rox, that's 0.40 shots per minutes, hitting 38% 3 pointers.

    Alsto shot 139 times in 479 minutes played this year. that's 0.28 shots per minute and hitting 38% 3 pointers as well. The other 0.12 shots per minute goes to somebody else, mainly Yao this year, who has a much higher percentage.
     
  8. Seven

    Seven Member

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    The only thing that still ticks me off is when announcers say we went for mike james, because we wanted a new starting point gaurd. He was gonna be coming off from the damn bench.
     
  9. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Lol. A little far-fetched logic but so true...Alston will get burned.
     
  10. Seven

    Seven Member

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    You can't turn the ball over if you shoot it all the time. :(
     
  11. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    My bad on the eFG%, Barry was the one who had it higher than Yao.

    Factoring in free throws is what TS% is: and James comes out higher than McGrady that year. (.533 to .526)

    It defintely shows that your statement that he makes the team less efficient is dead wrong. Just like he made the Raptors more efficient last year, and even makes the Wolves more efficient this year even though he's in a slump.

    That's really a dumb argument to make. James has been among the most efficient players in the NBA the last few seasons, especially on a per $ basis - that's why the Rockets wanted him back. That pretty much trumps all your arguments.

    Uh, last year he was extremely successful, that's why the Rockets wanted him back.

    Please, Toronto was a horrible team before James (with Rafer). They're horrible after him..for christ's sake, they started Rafa Araujo. What does that prove, other than that their team is mediocre? The fact that you expected a guy who made 2 million to lead his team to wins as the only perimeter option on a bad team shows how you have to move the goalposts. He's to be a third option here. Considering that he's fillign that role now, and has filled it before, I don't see what grounds you have to conclude that he can't.

    Please, the Wolves are just as mediocre now as they were two weeks ago. Around James they have Garnett and a bunch of average to mediocre 1-on-1 players who just aren't that good.

    Duck superman, here comes the pistol!

    We did want him to be launching. That's why the Rockets wanted him back.
     
  12. choujie

    choujie Member

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    What's your point? Just because Rockets want him back, that trumps everything, and he automaticlly becomes the 1st option for Rox?

    Rockets want him back, I want him back too, at a reasonable price. But that deosn't mean he is the better fit at PG for Rox than Alston. I'd rather have him as 6th man than Bonzi. He can launch as much as he wants when Tmac and Yao both on the bench, but not when both on the floor.

    Everything you mentioned in your posts only shows he's a better shooter than Alston, but nothing else. I agree he shoots better than Alston, but I don't agree he runs the team better than Alston, certainly he doesn't look for Yao and Tmac(2 best options) enough like Alston. That makes him a worse fit than Alston as our starting PG.
     
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    You seem to be in denial about the role of the Rockets PG this year as interpreted by Rafer Alston. That role is to take at least 10 shots a night and at least 6 3 pointers a night, along with a cursory number of assists.

    You keep telling me taht this is within the flow of the offense, because that is what Rafer does, due to his basketball IQ. If that's the flow of the offense I'm fully confident James is up to the challenge, as were the Rockets last year, when they tried to replace Alston with James.
     
  14. choujie

    choujie Member

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    Since when stating the truth becomes in denial? The fact is Alston takes the shots that comes to him natually for the most part, while james often tries to create his own shots, ignoring better options on the team.

    Rox tried to replace Alston with James or Rox tried to get a backup or Rox tried to let those 2 share the responsibility?

    Why are you so sure it's the first case? Did management or JVG tell you that? Did they tell you Hayes would start for Rox?
     
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Prove it. Find me one iota of proof which indicates that James ignores better options. The fact that he has made offenses better, everywhere he has been, indicates otherwise. The fact that he is always among the top perimeter shooters on the team (and, last year, in the league) indicates otherwise. The fact that Chris Bosh improved his offense playing with James than he did with "pass-first" Rafer indicates otherwise. (Bosh is now shooting worse and scoring less this year, without James, btw). I don't think you've watched too many T-wolves games this year, nor did you watch many Raptors games last year, so I don't know where you're getting this.

    That's why the Rockets wanted him back.

    He wasn't coming here to sit on the bench after an all-star quality season, that much is certain. That's why the Rockets put all their eggs in his basket (because he provided exactly what the team lacked last year) and were left up crap creek when he went to Minny.

    That's why the Rockets wanted him back.
     
    #35 SamFisher, Nov 28, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2006
  16. choujie

    choujie Member

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    It seems like you are the one who really is in denial. Proof? There were a lot posts acccusing James for ignoreing Tmac and Yao in games if I remembered correctly. James even waved off Tmac in playoff games if I remembered correcrtly. And Tmac's quote proved it too.

    Agian, James can shoot the ball deosn't meant he should be the first option of starting PG for Rockets. Yao and Tmac should always be 1st and 2nd options, depending on matchups.

    I don't understand why you're so certain Rox try to get James to play staring PG. Bonzi might not start for Rockets after a superstar like playoffs even if he's in shape. It's all about how the team fits. Rox want him back because he can play, he can contribute, not necessarily because he is the best starting PG for Rox. That's common sense. Just like Dallas signed a lot players with big contracts but let them come off the bench, while started rookies like Daniels and Howard.

    I've seen enough that year to conclude he took too many not so good shots with Rocktes. Can he change? Maybe. But I'd want to see that happen first before I say I like him to replace Alston.
     
  17. Clutch

    Clutch Administrator
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    What's especially funny about this is T-Mac hasn't compared Kevin Garnett's numbers to Yao Ming's then looked at Mike James' numbers to his own. Crikey! Something tells me opponents are saying they want T-Mac "launching" too .. and that's not even mentioning Rafer.
     
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    So...your proof is a bunch of hysterical Game Thread posts (doubtless from angry YOF's or something, I remember one b****ing at him for going 11-15 from the field in his second game - LOL) and a hearsay story about T-mac "being waved off" that doesn't have a shred of evidence, as well as rumors about them hating each other which were eventually discredited last year....?

    Good enough for me...:rolleyes: Not good enough for the Rockets;
    That's why the Rockets wanted him back.

    You know, given Tmac's shooting lately maybe he should come here and "wave Tmac off" more...

    Translation: I didn't watch him play this year or last year, and I am making the counterintuitive argument that a guy who hits at a higher percentage takes "worse" shots than a guy who hits for a low percentage.

    I wouldn't be surprised if you were one of those horrified people the morning after he shot 11-15.
     
  19. room4rentsf

    room4rentsf Member

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    Guys get a room!
     
  20. choujie

    choujie Member

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    I've wathced enough Rox games too. Since you want proof but you don't want believe what I saw, then I gave you what other people saw and how Tmac feels as proof. Then you say not good enough. Can I ask you give me some "good enough" proof that he didn't ignore Yao and Tmac?

    Remind you, in that year, James shot 0.40 shots per minute, Yao shot 0.39 per minute. And you think he has looked for Yao enough.

    Given James' shooting lately(0-4 and 0-5), he shouldn't even try to put up a shot, let alone wave Tmac off.

    Again, please read my post and think about it. Individually make higher percentage doesn' mean he is better fit for the team and deosn't mean the shots are "better".

    For example, James shot 40 shots per 100 minute, 34% were 3 pointers, made 38% 3pointers, hitting 45% of his 2 pointers, that's roughly 39 points per 100 minutes. Alston this year, 28 shots per 100 minutes, 58% were 3 pointers, hitting 38% of his 3s, hitting 41% of his 2s, that's roughly 28 points per 100 minutes for Alston. The other 12 shots goes to Yao, who hits 53% of his 2s. That's roughly 13 points. So the total points scored for that 40 shots
    is about 41 points, which is better than 39 points by James for taking the same amount of shots. And the team's offensive efficiency is improved.
     

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