What are we trying to learn here? How to defend an inbound play in the last 3.5 seconds of a game when the game is on the line? And this happens how often during a season? And you want to teach this to 2 non-starters - Taylor and Morris? Your logic is contrary to what the vast majority of NBA coaches do - use situational offensive and defensive players to increase their end game strategies. You're logic tells the Jazz coach to leave Ostertag in the game because he needs to learn to take three point shots under pressure. There's a reason the Jazz lineup with 3.5 seconds consisted of Stockton, Malone, Harping, Kirilenko and Padgett and did not include Ostertag. You are trying to fabricate an argument that hands on experience is the only way to learn. And that's just not true.
I still feel this way, and I know it is cheesy to repeat it, but it bears repeating. Rudy needs to learn how to situation substitute, he NEVER does it. Why not put Cato in on the last play to protect Yao and his 4 fouls? I think Rudy is a nice guy for a veteran team, but maybe not for this bunch...they need a crack the whip guy. DD
heypee: if you believe that, fine. let's just leave it at this: if we were ever coaching against me...expect your player's head to be ripped off on that play...
edit: if YOU were ever coaching against me... oh, and if malone could have flipped an over-the-head four point play, i'd personally shake his hand and wash his 18 wheeler for a month...
OK, let's leave at this. If you let Malone pass to Harpring, then "ripped of" Malone's head, score 3pts for Harpring and Malone is at the line for the win. nice going coach.
No, you foul Malone BEFORE he makes the pass and put him on the line for 2 free throws, much like we did in Phoenix in the Mario Elie Kiss of death game....remember? DD
no, because according to coachpee, the pass wouldn't still gotten off, and we couldn't have prevented the harpring three from ever seeing the light of day...
verse, we are past the Foul Malone before the pass. d'uh. That's what Rudy and all of us agree on. You, however, are saying Rudy Lied You, however, are advocating as a last resort to still fouling Malone after the pass, and I said that wouldn't get called unless it was a flagrant...2 and the ball...and Harpring's shot still goes. They will not disqualify Harpring's shot based on you punching Malone...and no coach would ever bank on that to the point of using it in strategy. If you are advocating getting a flagrant on Malone *before* the pass ("ripping his head off"), then you are even more ludicrous, because that is 2 and the ball with half a tick off the clock to make it 3 seconds left. What are you talking about?
when did i say to purposely foul malone? produce the quote where i said they should intentionally foul malone and i'll GLADLY contribute to the tip jar....
here's a direct quote from 2:22pm: "btw, i'm not suggesting that they should have intentionally fouled off of the ball. i'm saying that was the worst case scenario is, in fact, malone releases the ball waaaaaaaaaay before the foul gets there. otherwise, it would have been a normal foul...not an off the ball foul." here's another from 10:44am: "guys. if malone or (whoever was playing center) gets the inbound...foul him immediately. they are not going to shoot the three. otherwise, don't foul. just try to deny the ball and force them to take the 2." as for rudy lying: 10:40am "like i said, i don't think rudy told them to foul. i think he left it up to the players' discretion whether or not to foul...depending on if they thought he could get the shot off. well, with veterans you might be able to do that. but with young players, you explicitly tell them what to do. if you are the leader, they will listen. it's that simple. one person messing up...ok. two people not even making the effort to tightly cover either man after being told to foul? very hard to believe. i mean, who didn't know that the #1 option on that play was the inbounds man?" to say he told them to lie is a fence straddling lie. maybe he said "foul...if" but he should have said "foul...when". i'm done here...i've seen you go round for round with Clutch to know you'll never acknowledge or admit when you're wrong...that is, if you see it at all.... it's cool, though. we just disagree on this...
verse, That is why I am on HP's ignore list. I called him out too many times, and he decides to run and ignore. Too bad, I enjoyed the bantor with him sometimes, he is hard headed, but he does know the game. DD
You cannot just tell the players to foul "no matter what." There IS ROOM for discretion. A good coach would not do that, because if Malone is in the act of shooting, you should not foul. You should not foul too hard or it could be a flagrant. If Rudy did tell them exactly as you say, he would've been the dumbest coach and worthy of being bashed.
Also, off the ball foul would not be called in the end-game situation. Or else you don't really need to look at the inbound pass. Just hold your man and it would be a foul. It's not that simple. The refs wouldn't let you do that at the last shot. They would only call something on the ball.
Verse's arguement happens to make more sense to me. These are desperate times - I won't rule out anything.
Easy: everyone in the arena knew the 3 pointer was not being drawn up for karl malone to take. if he gets the ball, you hammer him. it's that simple.
verse, so your last comment is to say I won't admit I'm wrong for saying Rudy didn't lie? Yeah, me and about two dozen other posters here. if we have a misunderstanding about you advocating two and the ball fragrant, fine. We misunderstand each other. But your last quote does say "hammer" him intentionally, so pay up to the tip jar. You hammer Malone before the pass and that is only .5 off the clock with a flagrant, if I understand "hammer." If you mean just a normal foul...well, Rudy agrees and so does everyone. The *only* reason this thread is this big is because you said Rudy lied! it's that simple.
