bull****. although this is not a preferred situation, the refs would call it. are you really sitting there saying the refs would not have called a foul in the jazz' favor?! the jazz would have gotten 2 shots plus the ball. but, it would have been a broken nose malone with 2 shots. if he makes both, they're down 1 with an out of bounds play coming. who knows what would have happened... i do know that was absolutely terrible execution. and the last time i checked, when players don't execute simple things - for whatever reason, the blame usually goes to the coach. IT'S HIS JOB TO MAKE SURE THEY EXECUTE SIMPLE THINGS, PEOPLE.
That is totally ridiculous, now you want to give them a chance for 4 points???!!! As far as not leaving TMo and Yao in there... so when do they get to learn? Only in practice? People keep harping on letting the young ones learn by playing, but no... only in situations that doesn't mean anything.
like i wrote...that is NOT the preferred situation. that is the worst case scenario. actually, you're giving them a chance at 5 points, but that besides the point here...
The learning should have taken place in the 47 minutes and 56.5 seconds that had previously been played. A 3 point lead with 3.5 seconds on the clock against a playoff caliber team is not the time for on the job training. Especially for a team 3-7 in it's last ten with the Lakers breathing down their necks for the 8th seed and a team in need of some confidence.
An off-ball foul would not get called; otherwise, you are suggesting all FIVE Rockets screwed up for not fouling anyone. A flagrant as you described, maybe, but you damn sure don't want a flagrant. You telling me a good coach (any coach) would have said, "foul, even if it has to be a flagrant foul." just when I thought you were reaching your furthest to spin a tale of Rudy lying, you reach into your ass to grab some sheep dung to through at us.
Heypee, would it be possible have someone mark the inbounder, and at least disturb him if he got the ball back(before he shoot, he can run fade way, just dont let him catch and shoot stright up), grab him, hug him whatever, would it be possible? Matt Harpring's shot was not contested. TMo blew his assginment, he went for Marlone and did not fould(like you say it was a split play bang bang). Then he went back to stop Harping with Ming, failed. Harpring was foulable, if some had marked him.
i've got to say, aside from the smart-ass remarks by The Freak scattered through this thread, this is one of the best threads i've seen on the site an a LONG while, with people actually bringing some good thoughts to the table. verse, i agree with you. while i don't think rudy outright "lied", i don't think there is any chance that he told his players to foul no matter what, as soon as the ball was inbounded. it sounds, and looked, like he told them something to the nature of "foul them if you think they are getting an open look at a 3" or something like that. and the overriding factor that several people touched on is that, whether he told them to foul or not, this is reflected on him as a coach. if he told them to do something, and they aren't listening, that's just further evidence that it's time for him to go. rudy either has lost his coaching mind, lost his control over his players, or both. i have been saying longer than almost all of you that we need to get rid of him. i'm glad you all are finally seeing the light.
have you forgotten why that rule was instated in the first place? because defenses were fouling select players off of the ball and the refs HAD TO CALL IT. don't tell me they wouldn't have called it. that's the damn reason for the rule being there! just ask shaq... btw, i'm not suggesting that they should have intentionally fouled off of the ball. i'm saying that was the worst case scenario is, in fact, malone releases the ball waaaaaaaaaay before the foul gets there. otherwise, it would have been a normal foul...not an off the ball foul. give it up on this fact...you're wrong. also, i could have sworn there were four people involved on that set. i could have sworn there was morris, yao, harpring and malone. i don't the golden game tape in front of me, but if memory serves me correctly (and i know it does), there were two rockets and two jazz involved. oh, and consider yao's words: "I did not know if I could foul him or not," Yao said. "But I think I should have fouled him." "COULD?" funny, but when a coach tells you to foul, i don't think the word "could" would apply...
sounds to me like there was a "choice" to be made by the player...as if rudy left room for discretion. in that situation, though, there is NO ROOM for discretion. you tell your players: "if malone or (whoever was playing center) gets the ball - FOUL THE **** OUT OF HIM."
feishen, I don't think you've seen enough Utah/Rockets games if you suggest fouling Harpring after he catches the pass. He'll get the call and go to the line for 3 shots. You can foul his arms as he's catching the ball, but you better let him shoot after that. I recall Harpring receiving a pick off the inbounds to loose his man enough to avoid a foul as he was catching the ball. Note that all the Jazz say that play has many options, and Harpring was actually option 2, right? Plus he can cut corner or out front. The inbounds defender doesn't really know. Plus he went to a spot 27 feet out, not exactly an angle you are preventing by blanketing a guy off the inbounds pass. we screwed up not fouling, but I don't see anyone suggesting to foul harpring.
This has nothing to do with Yao. I love the guy and I did not blame everything on him. Look, logically, which actually makes more sense? 1. Rudy told them not to foul or said nothing at all and then lied to everyone in the media afterward to cover his ass. 2. A rookie and a second-year player with little big-game experience missed an assignment and made a mistake. I absolutely love Yao and I'm thrilled that he has so many fans. But, I'm also balanced enough to say the guy needs to improve, as does Steve, as does everyone on the team and, frankly, as does Rudy. The problem is that there are a lot of people who are gung ho to rest all the blame for all our problems on the head of an idividual or to annoint one person as the savior for this team. In reality, there is no savior. There is no single person to blame. But, as usual when it comes to highly emotional situations, it is easier to pick out people we don't like and call them the anti-Christ or pick out people we do like and claim they can do no wrong. The truth is ALWAYS somewhere in between. I just would like it if people could see through their bias one way or the other long enough to see the whole picture. I've admitted that I really like Rudy as a person. But, I've also been the first to fess up and say that a lot of his decisions have been questionable and even stated that he probably should be fired if they miss the playoffs again. Like everyone, I have guys I like more than others, but I am as quick to criticize them as I am those who I don't like and just as quick to praise guys I don't care for. Hell, I absolutely HATE Karla Malone but there is no denying they guy's skill and seeing him up close last night made me realize that he is just freakin' ridiculous. Doesn't mean I suddenly like him. I'm just man enough to admit he's good.
Have to disagree, if that is the case then they will NEVER get the chance to learn? Please tell me when is a good time to learn then? The learning is not just on the play, but also playing under pressure, which in this case it is. rocketfat, please tell me why Rudy or any coach would tell his player to foul under any circumstance? If the Utah player was shooting a 3, would you foul him? If he made that shot, he would had a chance to win the game at the line. ...i have been saying longer than almost all of you that we need to get rid of him. i'm glad you all are finally seeing the light. No, it is just that more are leaning toward the dark side now.
IMHO, Yao & Morris played it safe by not fouling Malone, and decided that challenging the ultra-hot Harpring (11 of 14 from the field) at the 3 point line was the better alternative. Bad excution, bad decision, fantastic shot. That how NBA-lifer Calvin Murphy described it (sort of), and that's good enough for me. I would rather compliment someone for making a great shot (Harpring) than talk about things I don't know anything about! (Rudy's adjustments\instructions, or lack of.)
and that's my problem with the whole thing. you don't leave the players room to make that kind of decision. you foul malone, damnit.
There has to be a choice, because what if Malone let the ball fly the second you lay your hands on him, that would've been 3 shots at the line. I believe that Rudy told them to foul unless the player is putting up a shot behind the arc. Yao and TMo's mistake was that because they were not within reaching distance of Malone, they didn't want to take a chance of fouling him while he motion for a shot.
<i>btw, i'm not suggesting that they should have intentionally fouled off of the ball. i'm saying that was the worst case scenario is, in fact, malone releases the ball waaaaaaaaaay before the foul gets there. otherwise, it would have been a normal foul...not an off the ball foul. give it up on this fact...you're wrong. </i> 'ehpartner, the hack-a-shaq is a technical and the ball, not 2 and the ball. I thought you were talking about a flagrant, and that wouldn't get call at the point of the play, anyhow, as you state in your quote. "normal foul" "off-ball foul" whatever. I'm talking about a 2-shot foul for fouling Malone after the pass. I remain flabbergasted you still are trying to make a case for hack-a-shaq. That is ludicrous. No way you give them a chance to win in regulation...no way! And enough with "well, as a last resort." Hell no, the last resort is to let Harprings 27-footer fly for merely a tie.
edit, I mean the hack-a-shaq wouldn't get called on fouling Malone, as you said verse. A flagrant certainly could and would and the 3 pointer would probably still count. Live, slight correction. Harpring was not "at the 3pt line." He shot from 27 feet out. Yao had the 3pt line covered for a good chunk of the arc.
I'm confused, in large part because I didn't see the game, but from what I saw on Sportscenter, it looked like Morris was guarding the ball on the inbounds play and was recovering towards Malone once the ball came into play. From what I'm reading Morris, I can't really tell if Morris was supposed to be man to man with Malone or Harpring. Can anyone explain how we were set up initially before the play even started? I'm interested to know what exactly happened and I don't really have a clear picture.
