1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Chron: This team still missing many pieces

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by dragon167, Dec 12, 2004.

  1. Charvo

    Charvo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,861
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's been mentioned already. Who do you think JVG is making better on offense? Yao, Mo, and Juwan have definitely underperformed. Which of the perimeter guys do you think is playing well? TMac? TMac is already underperforming, and he's only been with JVG for a couple of months. At least Yao and Mo have an excuse of being with JVG for over a season. Even JVG's pet JJ is now underperforming this season. Who do you think is outperforming?

    When problems are teamwide, it almost always points back at the coach. When the Astros canned Jimi and Harry Spilman last year, a lot of folks said Jimi wasn't to blame. Yeah whatever.
     
  2. gunn

    gunn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    0
    I never claimed that he is making anyone better on offense. Yao is underperforming because he is made a non-factor by other teams defensive tactics; whether that be fronting or using strength to push him out of position on the offensive side of the ball, or using screen and rolls to take him out of the paint and take advantage of his foot speed or just to create and uptempo pace to get him winded to take him out of the game on the defensive side of the ball. He will never be a great player because he does not impose his will. Again, that's not the coaches fault that Yao is easily, and in multiple ways, made a non-factor. The bottom line is that he is soft.

    As for Tracy, I feel that he is performing at a good level. I don't feel that he is underperforming in any way. He is doing a solid job of creating and being a playmaker. He is going to have some off nights shooting, but I don't attribute that to him underperforming. Did you think he was going to get the same number of looks as he did in Orlando? Did you not think his point numbers would decrease?

    There are players that are underperforming on this team, and I'm not going to deny that, but those players are what they are; soft and inconsistant. A new coach is not going to make these players get a rebound. Or make these players not soft. They are what they are, and that is, not very good.
     
  3. MrRolo

    MrRolo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes Received:
    0
    We need a coach who realises that our players aren't capable of executing this system night in and night out and adjust to a system that better fits the players strengths. Yao isn't rebounding much because he's out setting picks at the 3 pt line when the ball is shot or driven to the hoop. I'm still waiting for JVG to use an alternate method of executing this play to give us better chances of getting a rebound. If our coach knows we don't have accurate shooters, and ones that miss wide open shots, then wouldn't the logical step be to adjust and try to focus more on rebounding since the players are more likely to miss than to make even when wide open? Keep Yao in the low post on offense, JHO or MoT can set picks, yea, they might not be as good as Yao at it but atleast they are able to recover for a rebound since they are quicker than Yao. In fact, using someone else other than Yao as the pick setting could open up so many more options to free Yao up. I just see so much potential with this team and JVG doesn't look to be exploring it. He looks to keep running the same offense from day one, until T-mac takes over and we actually make some points. Next game, watch on offense how the plays JVG runs leaves everyone else out of position to rebound and have Yao alone surround by 3 of the opposing teams players. Our plays are so predictable so obvious! I sat there and watch Juwan Howard standing there setting a screen for God-knows who, he stood there in position for atleast 6 seconds and the player just ran around it like it wasn't even there. The reason I want JVG gone is because he is stubborn. It's good to be stubborn when you have a young team that lacks discipline, but we are far from a young team, we are actually the farthest from a young team in the nba.
     
  4. edc

    edc Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    3,127
    Likes Received:
    41
    The assistants are Jeff Van Gundy's hand-picked staff. The argument in question was Van Gundy looking for an excuse for not living up to his media responsibilities.
     
  5. Charvo

    Charvo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,861
    Likes Received:
    0
    Everyone is underperforming. I'd think again about why you think TMac is playing up to par. The guy is making $14.5 MILLION this season, and he is going to make 12.5% more each year. If you consider the performance he is putting out on the court as being sufficent to warrant his salary, you are just drinking too much alcohol. TMac is underperforming relative to his prior years, and he's underperforming relative to his salary.
     
  6. Charvo

    Charvo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,861
    Likes Received:
    0
    Anyone who doesn't see the systemic issues of the Rockets is just drinking too much alcohol. Put down beer for a second and think.
     
  7. Charvo

    Charvo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,861
    Likes Received:
    0
    If Ewing is helping out the big men for the Rockets, he needs to go back to New York. The big men for the Rockets are all missing their hook shots now. I'd rather hire Rick Barry than Ewing. At least Rick Barry knows how to make a jumper.
     
  8. gunn

    gunn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't accuse me, or anyone else for that matter, of being incoherent. Tracy is playing the role of "playmaker" for this team. He was not asked to take on the bulk of scoring as he was in Orlando, and he shouldn't have to for that matter. He is doing his job of creating for others quite well, but the others are not executing, in part, because they are not very good. I'll ask you again, did you think his numbers would be the same as they were in Orlando? Did you think he would get the same amount of looks? Your comments are irrational and unwarranted.
     
  9. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    128,989
    Likes Received:
    39,465
    Gunn,

    Quit being a Van Baldy apologist.

    The man has NEVER developed one young player, and has never made one team better.

    He inherited a good team in NY and he continued the Pat Riley trend.

    Then when things started going south, did he make them better? Nope...he QUIT !!!

    Now in Houston, he has managed to take an up and coming team, and make it worse...not by trading SF for TM, but by trading decent role players for others that do not fit.

    Bye bye Van Baldy, don't let the door knob hit you in the A$$ on the way out.

    DD
     
  10. Rob English

    Rob English Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    1
    Last year, TMac admitted that the zone shut him down and frustrated him to the point he seriously considered quitting after the season was over. That's not the mentality of a top/great player.
     
  11. gunn

    gunn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    0
    DaDakota,

    I'm not being apologetic towards coach Van Gundy. As I said, coaches coach and players play. It's that simple. I'm not going to overemphasize the coaching position when things are going good, nor am I going to do the same with situations a coach can't control. i.e. soft, one-dimensional players. Some of these players are what they are, and that's it.
     
  12. Rob English

    Rob English Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    1
    TMac is soft mentally and fragile. Here's an article from ESPN last season:




    From ESPN.com last year:

    McGrady retiring?

    Tracy McGrady is talking about retiring in Orlando? "Over the last five games, I've had some crazy thoughts, man," McGrady told the Orlando Sentinel. "I was thinking that after this year, I'm done with basketball. Done with basketball, period. That's how frustrated I've been."

    McGrady said he even had questioned whether he had lost his "passion for it. ... if I lost my love for the game."

    Six straight losses with a 15 ppg average on 29 percent shooting in his last four games will do that to last year's NBA scoring champion.

    What happened to the confident T-Mac who once told a reporter that "being an elite player in this league, being one of the top players, you can't help but to be a little bit cocky."

    A plethora of zone defenses seems to be the kryptonite that transforms T-Mac from Superman into Keith Van Horn. McGrady has admitted it publicly, claiming that playing against the zone "is in my head. I know that."

    So does the rest of the league. "The minute McGrady said he can't score against the zone, every coach in the league took notice," one rival Eastern Conference coach told Insider. "Our advance guys might have caught it. But when a player announces what gives him fits, you run it into the ground.
     
  13. Rob English

    Rob English Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    1
    TMac needs to motivate himself instead of needing Shaq to call him before every game and command him to, "Stop playing like a girl". (Not in those nice terms, more like stop playing like a b*tch) It was in the Houston Chronicle how Tyron Lue kept relaying messages from Shaq to get TMac to play tough. He said he was going to tell him before every game.
     
  14. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2000
    Messages:
    10,210
    Likes Received:
    4,162
    C'mon, the "developed player" argument is weak. This isn't baseball, where kids are developed in Latin America at age 16, or brought in through the minors beginning at 18. It's all about identifying talent in the NBA. Development falls very little on the coaches. Nachbar saw 77 minutes of court time his rookie year- does that mean Rudy failed to develop him? Is Kareem Rush not getting on the floor this year a reflection of Rudy's failure to develop him?

    For that matter, Camby went from a 7 rpg guy in Toronto to averaging 11.5 for JVG.

    Is Larry Brown a poor developer because Darko is still playing like garbage?

    Rob- And MJ retired from the NBA. Twice.I don't know how after seeing the guy single-handedly destroy one of the best teams in the NBA in the last 35 seconds of the game anyone can call him mentally weak.
     
  15. snowmt01

    snowmt01 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2003
    Messages:
    1,734
    Likes Received:
    1

    gunn, quit making one's weakness as soft. Yao's play in the last
    five games were far from soft. Slow-foot and stamina are Yao's
    physical weakness, not something you can overcome by
    imposing "will". It's a coach's responsibility to make his players
    comfortable rather than expose their weakness.

    Both Yao and Tracy are underperforming partially because our
    offense doesn't create easy shots for them or helps them get
    into rhythm. Watching the Spurs you'll notice Duncan's
    teammates try very hard to free him by constant movement
    and precise ball delivery.
     
    #55 snowmt01, Dec 12, 2004
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2004
  16. gucci888

    gucci888 Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    17,227
    Likes Received:
    6,573
    DD may be talking about developing a young team.

    He inherited a good Knicks team from Riley and rode them til' they were done. He was left with a bunch of young guys and none of his old guys, and the guy basically lost it and quit.

    He inhertited a young team in the Rockets and immediately made them the oldest team in the league. Its unbelievable.
     
  17. Charvo

    Charvo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,861
    Likes Received:
    0
    I had a theory on JVG that I think is playing out so far. He came to the Rockets thinking he had to wield as much power as possible to push out the anti-JVG guys early in his contract. JVG did just that. However, Mo is definitely an anti-JVG guy. Yao is becoming one. Now JVG is pushing the power again. He brought on his kind of guys. He got Charlie Ward a multi-year contract which ties him financially to the team for the remainder of JVG's contract. Firing JVG is almost like eating Ward's contract. I wouldn't be surprised if JVG is going to force a trade of Mo and possibly Yao.

    I would like nothing more than to see Mo and Yao go to the Lakers since I am now somewhat rooting for the Lakers due to Rudy T being the coach.
     
  18. rich_argh

    rich_argh Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    363
    Likes Received:
    0
    **** lakers
     
  19. clove

    clove Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    3
    LOL. So would 1674 other people on this site. It's not going to happen as long as Yao doesn't want to leave. JVG(or even Tmac) will be gone faster than you can blink if Yao so desires.
     
  20. Charvo

    Charvo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,861
    Likes Received:
    0
    You still root against the Lakers with as much as fervor even with Rudy T there on the sidelines?
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now