[Chron] The first question Gary Kubiak will hear today: Who will be the No. 1 Pick?

If the Texans eat the whole bonus the salary rate for Carr isn't above market rate for servicable quarterbacks, let alone former #1 over all picks. That's even more true when you figure the salary cap is about to make a huge jump, maybe up to $95 million.

The 'not tradeable' comment was sort of stupid. It all comes down to how bad a team wants a quarterback and what is available on the marketplace.
If you haven't noticed there is a real shortage of decent QB's in the NFL, heck Jake Plummer is starting in the Pro Bowl

Deals can be made between willing partners. I'm through pimping for Vince, I'm just saying, it could be done under the new salary cap.

 

I would have a hard time seeing the Texans pass on Bush or VY.

It might be the smartest thing to move down and take Dbrick plus a couple future #1s (comparable to the SD-NYG deal with Eli), but PR wise it isn't going to be easy. If they are really, truly sold Carr will become an elite pro QB this would be a gusty and bold move to trade to #3 or #4. But if Bush and/or VY become superstars, ouch from the PR perspective.

What is funny is if they thinks they can make Carr a player, what do they think they could do with VY? They both were side arm prospects with good accuracy and arm strength, and good athleticism. The difference is VY is not just athletic but super-athletic, is bigger, and dominated much superior competition. If they were both coming out right now is there much of a question VY would be picked over Carr (Carr would probably fall like Big Ben did in the Eli-Rivers-Ben draft because this year you also would have two other high rated QB prospects who had the advantage of proving it versus better college comp in higher pressure situations)? I don't see how Carr's 4 years NFL play so far would reverse this. Not that Carr is a lost cause and I don't use the bust word, but nor has it helped his case that he is a sure thing even at this point. So VY is the better prospect and 4 years younger, hard to go against that.

Finally we all know GMs and owners just speak the plain truth at this point in the offseason

So yeah, the decisions have been made.

 

Does this help your case much? I mean, Eli's great and all, but Big Ben has accomplished a tad more in his short NFL career (while I concede we're only looking a pretty small sample size, a SuperBowl is a SuperBowl).

Another disclaimer--I'm not saying I disagree with your case, just playing a little devil's advocate. Honestly, I don't know where I stand on this (other than being tired of hearing about it). I've flip-flopped more times than John Kerry and I still haven't made up my mind.

 

I don't think so... David Carr is the starting QB as of this moment and the team need to express that they have confidence in him. They want to avoid a controversy if they actually don't draft VY. I really don't think the Texans will make a decision until the combine or when they can personally evaluate those two players. The vouching of David Carr is pretty standard in the PR playbook IMO.

 

To me, it basically comes down to already having a #1 pick at QB (only drafted 3 years ago) and the hassle it would be to trade him if they wanted to. It's been rumored that NFL minds believe Carr's, and the whole offense in general, problems were based on coaching and system, not talent.

Two years ago, Carr looked like he was becoming a damn good QB in only his 3rd season.

If they wanted Young, forgetting the fact that he is a local kid and from Texas, how would it look that they decided to give up on him so early in his career?

Besides, if Kubiak REALLY feels Carr is a Super Bowl winning QB if you put enough weapons and o-line around him, why does it matter that they don't draft Young?

They may very well feel Young is a SB winning QB as well but, if they already believe they already have that at that position, why not go after the "once-in-a-lifetime" RB?

Also, it will probably take 2-3 season for Young to become the starter, then another 2-3 years for the team to work it's way up to Super Bowl status. So, you would rather wait roughly 3-6 years to be a championship contender? By then Kubiak probably won't be here and AJ & DD will be close to being past their prime.

We have weapons, we have talent. We just need to add a few pieces and a new coaching system to excel. If they feel Carr is that good, draft the stud RB, improve the line & defense and lets start thinking of championships in the next year or two.

Instead of saying how much of a mistake they re making not getting Young. Think of how highly and how good they think Carr, AJ & Bush will be that they pass him up.

 

I don't think it really helps the case for Carr at all. Granted the teams are very different (BR is supported by a great run game and a defense), but the Stealers were poor the year before Ben R arrived, which is why they had a low draft pick to take him. Further the Stealers have been much better with Ben R than without him since he was there (suggesting he has made a difference) and that is over only 2 years when Carr has had 4 to prove he belongs (it is much harder to determine if the Texans would be much better with him or not).

Personally, I think Eli has been pretty sucky and he has a lot to work with (pretty good D, Barber, decent OL and decent WRs).

One thing going for VY and BR is they were charasmatic leaders and winners, to go along with their substantial talent. (If Eli takes after his brother we know his talent is far greater than his leadership)

But my main point is just as BR went after Eli and Rivers in the draft, I would strongly expect Carr to go after VY and ML if he were coming out this year. Carr deserved as much as anyone to be the #1 pick that year (I supported it because I thought he was great at Fresno) as did Alex Smith last year, but these guys were not the slam dunk QB prospects you get in other years (e.g., Vick, Palmer, Eli, VY, ML). In short I can't see anything about Carr's college (like I said he has great at Fresno, but not VY legendary great against elite comp) or pro career to warrent taking your chance with him over VY, even taking aside the issue that VY is 4 years younger.

 

Makes sense. Try to support your guy (Carr) and float the idea they won't draft VY to fans. Protects them if they don't draft VY.

If they do draft VY, they then just say he was too much of a phenom to pass up once they evaluated him, not that Carr won't be a good NFL player. Makes it easier (or at least doesn't hurt their efforts) to try to trade Carr.

Kubiac hasn't talked to/evaluated Carr himself first hand, they havn't worked out any of the top draft prospects, and we don't have combine like figures, it makes no sense to be committed to a course of action.

 

Nice Post

 

Maybe its lip service, but it looks like we're stuck with this freakin' Carr...We'll be stuck in a ditch for at least two years...

I don't think Carr can be that guy...I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so...It's decision making, not just ability...Is Vince Young the immediate solution, no, but there is a hell of a lot of upside...

 

I was driving listening to 610 after the Conference
and they were talking to McNair
I nearly WRECKED when he compare Carr to Brady and Manning

I knew then
Vince has no Chance

The reminds me of when the fans
wanted the oilers to play McNair
but they chose to play COMMANDER CODY
2-14 season later. . they on their way to Tennesee

Deja Vu

Rocket River

 

RR,

they played Chandler over McNair after a season of Carlson. Carlson's play earned them the pick.

 

I've never really gotten the whole dump-Carr-for-Young thing. Yeah, it makes sense if you bleed orange, but otherwise, I don't see it as a plausible football decision.

You put Carr behind a terrible offensive line and you don't give him a lot of great targets to throw at beyond Andre Johnson. So he gets sacked - a lot. And so he gets a little gun shy and regresses a little bit.

So what now? You say #$%* it and get a QB who runs the option instead? "We don't need an O-line, a decent TE, or another good WR. We'll just let Vince run for 1st downs, just like he did in the Rose Bowl. He solves all of our problems!"

You've got to be kidding. If Vince tries to run as much in the NFL as he did in college, he'll end up in a body cast. Instead of watching Carr get cracked 4 or 5 times a game behind the line of scrimmage, you'll see Vince getting cracked 10 to 15 times trying to pick up yards. He'll be injured all the time like Vick.

I'd rather get Carr some help before I trade him in for someone else. What's the point of switching engines when the wheels are falling off?

 

Some people think the engine sucks too.

 

hmm, deja vu.

 

some people don't think the engine sucks...but are convinced that once we get the other parts taken care of, we'll still be better off with a new engine.

it isn't as if getting VY means you can't get help anywhere else on the team...and it isn't as if keeping Carr means you'll find the parts to fill the rest of the holes. they're not mutually exclusive events.

one key difference i see from those who want the texans to take VY and those who don't is how quickly the person thinks the texans can turn it around...and whether they feel the team was better than their 2-14 record. i think the team has so many holes it's silly. i think this team will be rebuilding, anyway...with a completely new system on both sides of the ball.

 

Speaking of which, this is the problem:

This is not about VY vs. Bush. This is about VY vs. Bush and Carr.

Unless you're pretty damn sure that Carr is a bust, (and nobody who has watched the Texans the past 4 seasons can legitimately say that) obtaining VY isn't worth these two players.

If you do draft VY, you've just knocked Carr's trade value down, because you are saying as an organization that he isn't worth keeping as your starting QB. You might get a future #2 draft pick for him.

It simply isn't worth all of this if you have any faith in Carr being even a "good" QB.

The Texans have already figured this out. It's time VY supporters follow suit.

 

You're acting like if we got VY, we wouldn't improve anywhere else. No matter who we draft, we are gonna have to improve the things you mentioned. It's not like drafting VY would stop us from improving the O-Line or doing other things.

 

Correction:

This is not about VY vs. Bush. This is about VY and Davis and Wells vs. Bush and Carr.

 

More like revisionist history. You are forgetting Bucky, Billy Joe, and Chandler.

 

I just don't know how you can judge Carr. Yeah, a player like Vince might have won an extra 2 or 3 games this year with his feet. But would that really help?