Remember he was only at 75 percent whenhe played for the Rockets, or did you forget that? Like I said 100 percent Sura is definitely better than Battier, if you doubt that then you have not seen Battier play much and have obviously not seen Sura from his days in Cleveland, GS or Atlanta. If Sura is able to come back 100 percent he is easily better than Battier.
News flash the Chronicle is reporting that Hakeem is coming out of retirement to help the Rockets win a title. They're trying to put a positive spin on things, but the ship is still sinking no matter how they try to spin it. Sura's coming back. Great we only need about 3 or 4 major moves now and we could win a title in the next 10 years.
I happy for Bob, everyone wants to see him recover. But realistically whatever he added to the Rockets was based on hustle, even if he makes it back on the court his body may not physically be able to produce that kind of effort. But the man is mentally tough, who knows.
Im just hoping Sura can play a flash back season just before retirement. Anyone have a bob sura highlight reel? much appreciated
No I didn't forget that. So let's look at Sura's career. Sura's PER over his career: Code: Year Ag Tm Lg G PER 1996 22 CLE NBA 79 15 1997 23 CLE NBA 82 14.8 1998 24 CLE NBA 46 9.6 1999 25 CLE NBA 50 11 2000 26 CLE NBA 73 15.6 2001 27 GSW NBA 53 11.2 2002 28 GSW NBA 78 17.1 2003 29 GSW NBA 55 14.2 2004 30 DET NBA 53 13 ATL NBA 27 18.5 TOT NBA 80 16.2 2005 31 HOU NBA 61 14.4 Out of 10 seasons there are only 2 that he demonstrated that he performed above average. And that's being generous considering his performance playing for the Atlanta Hawks really counts. Surely he has been 100% for more than 2 seasons. So now being 100% for the Rockets he's going to all of sudden have an explosive year? Sura's +/- Stats (only available from 02/03 season to current): Code: on-ct off-ct net 2003 GSW +.6 -1.8 +2.4 2004 DET -1.2 +7.2 -8.4 ATL +.4 -6.2 +6.6 2005 HOU +3.9 +4.1 -0.2 Granted the +/- stats are limited to his last 3 years so a bit inconclusive but what we do have certainly doesn't give us much to be excited about. Honestly to think that Sura at 100% is going to give you much more than he has in the past and somehow become a dominant force and component for making the Rockets contenders is just really wishful thinking quite frankly. Regarding the topic of Sura/Battier - I was even giving Sura the benefit of the doubt when I said he is the 4th best player on the Rockets current roster and wasn't even factoring Battier. That's a whole separate discussion. Statistically the 3rd best player we have on the current roster right now is Chuck Hayes.
That is as close to a fantasy world as you can get. Forget Bob Sura, just look at the performance and then talk
Can someone post a link where it says Sura's knees are going to allow him to play? This kinda reminds me of Jeff Bagwell this past spring training where he wanted to try to play but the fact was he needed a cut off man to throw the ball back to the pitcher from first base.
Yes, and Yao Ming's on-court was +2.6, off-court +6.4, team net -3.9. Barry had +/- of +11.6 compared to McGrady's weak +4.4 and Ming's pathetic +2.6. If only we could trade McGrady/Ming and somehow coax Barry out of retirement. On second though, maybe these statistics don't tell the whole story of a player's worth.
People who base everything on stats............. like Morey wow what a fantastic jobe he's doing so far. I just wonder how some fans think stats are everything. Keep trying to push your argument that you measure a player like Sura by stats.
no one is 100% after back surgery. maybe Sura will be 100% compared to 2004 but Sura will be >33 years old and will probably have lost a step.
Cut Morey some slack, I think the battery keeps going dead on his calculator and he's having a hard time analyzing players these days.
Incidentally the +/- stats are the same ones folks are using to describe what an asset Battier is for the Rockets. Actually I'm not a big fan of raw +/- stats. What they really tell you is how the player compares relative to the folks that sub-in for them as well as the combination of players that are in the game the same time a specific player is. There's no isolation of the individual player's contribution. However it's the simplest one that people can get their hands around to try and understand vs. trying to use something like net points +/- or a net48 +/- etc. It's better to treat them as a one of several bits of information to look at IMHO. For instance like you've pointed out Mcgrady's and Yao's +/- are lower than what you might expect for the 04-05 season. A look at their PER will yield more data points to make conclusions around. Their PER stats show that they were the 2 main cogs for the Rockets. In the case of Sura if you look at both his PER and +/- both indicate that he's a mediocre player his tenacity notwithstanding. Personally I think PER is a much better indicator of a player's impact for a team.
The problem is that his days in Cleveland, GS, and Atlanta were so long ago. Sura is 33 years old with terrible knees, even if he is able to come back 100% (which is highly doubtful), he is still 5 years older than Battier. So it's hard to say that he "easily" better than Battier if 100%. You bash other posters for trying to measure Sura by his stats, but what else do you measure then? We all know the guy is tough as nails and plays with a ton of heart, but that's something you can't measure and even if you could, we don't know if it's better than Battier's.
