sad how people are directing all the disappointment of the season to a coach and are ignoring the real problem.
develop what? a 6'10 shooter who is completely incompetent at everything else? an out of control, euro combo guard? be realistic. thats all im saying. Also, when did it only take 1 season to determine their development? there is no set formula for how long it takes for someone to become a productive player, there is even no guarantee. Maybe vspan will be a good nba pro but that will take time. I get the "i want it all now" point of view...the "take a pill and it will cure all the problems" mentality that is widespread now in days, but thats unrealistic. Immediate impact players from either euro is an exception, not a rule. Go down the list and the answer is there in your face, its just up to you to accept it. i think the whole "development" argument is always skewed b/c people just pick and choose what they accept. Has yao got better? yes, but thats just b/c yao is good, right...not b/c he has been given guidance. has chuck improved? yes, but thats b/c his is all heart. not b/c of guidance. Has luther improved? yes, but he's a shooter and that really doesnt take guidance. vspan? people automatically assume he hasnt got better. thats just a false assumption. i understand its a rockets forum but thats no excuse to isolate yourself from the rest of basketball reality.
It's the chicken and the egg. Look, the Rockets lost in the first round. It was great we had home-court advantage and all, but they could have been the 8th seed and lost in the first round and for all purposes, the results would have been the same. Which means, even if there really, truly, absolutely was nothing for JVG to work with to develop, in retrospect (the saying hindsight is 20/20 is actually true, it is 20/20) he should have at a minimum given one of those guys more and regular off the bench playing time... we'd almost certainly be better off today...our season would still be over and we'd have a much clearer understanding of what we do and don't have. this is not to take blame away from the other players or the rest of the front office...just a matter of fact, really. it is what it is. JVG's inability to at least try and develop the younger players have cost this team more than the short-term benefit the team experienced from goind with the more veteran players.
fair enough jay, but do you feel that development can happen even though a player may not play that often? didnt billy look 2x better when he played later in the season than earlier?
one can always hope! Heck, Kevin Martin certainly proved that it can happen. What I would say is just that in regards to our players, it is clear he should have played them more when it is all said and done. It is just one thing to point out. I can just as easily say it is clear T-Mac should have gone to the rack everytime in the Jazz series and Yao should have shot better against single-coverage. And, in fairness, you've seen plenty of trade Yao and trade T-Mac threads. If we're looking for someone to really, truly point our fingers at...well, it's obviously Bonzi Wells. Utah is a good team. They should make it to the WCF, and heck, wouldn't entirely suprise me if they made it to the Finals. It hink with Bonzi Wells playing as if he cared all season long, the Rockets take Utah in 5 or 6 games, and move on in the playoffs.
not really, during the preseason he played more and more effective you can go ahead and get 5 good to great players, but you will have to pay an excessive price and probably you can't even afford to pay them so what do top teams do? they develop players....can we really say besides Yao we developed someone that we are proud of, no! during the Jeffy time we just lost 4 years
chuck? luther? verdict is still out on billy and novak. houston had 1 late 2nd round pick 2003 and reached on badiane. 2004...billy in 2nd 2005 luther 2006 novak/battier trade eeww.. i have never seen it listed out like that. I dont think its coincidence that the 1 1st rounder that the rockets actually got has been one who can actually contribute.
well i admit that it would be nice to play those guys more in spot situations (during the regular season and not really the playoffs) but to call for a coaches head b/c he doesnt play then an extra 5 minuets here of 10 minutes there, every once and a while is just excessive. Despite what may come across i think billy can he a heck of a player but the dude needs time. But i also see the flip side. The rockets werent exactly known for their ability to close teams out so its a dangerous situation when you not only start playing young players, but young players who are prone to turning the ball over. i really dont see a clear enough case where the finger can be pointed at 1 person, not reasonably b/c it was a team wide collapse. Personally i feel the last few minutes of a game like that is were players usually make or break. well they broke.
ah comon... contribute, in what way, of how much? Luther is a poor ballhandler, not very smart, has a good outside shot when given the opportunity, he only played because we had so many injuries previous season...he is not a big upgrade or a good development, he came in with a three point shot, thats where he is right now! at a three point shot, nothing else really improved IMO... Chuck, first dumped and then brought back, he clearly has the heart, improved in some way or the other, but he is nothing to brag about....poor shooter, free throws are a debacle, we are lucky he hits most of his layups...like I said a great hustler with a good nose of rebounding the ball and thats it maybe it's to early for those guys, but to me its not a big development
Yes, but it is expedited by playing time on the court. My whole entire point was that this Rockets team is not going anywhere with the current players in their rotation, and they should be trying to find the missing pieces either on the bench or elsewhere. And I believe JVG's contract situation hurt in this regards. DD
I think his head is being called for due to the lack of advancing past the 1st round of the playoffs. This is just a discussion of some of the reasons why that's happened, imo. There are some options here: 1. Trade Yao 2. Trade T-Mac 3. Trade JVG (essentially, by firing him) 4. Trade front office (more or less being done anyway) 5. Trade owners (not going to happen) 6. Trade role players 7. Trade no-one 8. Some combination of above. Number 4 is happening with CD to Morey. Les ain't selling. Les ain't trading Yao. Les almost definitely ain't trading T-Mac. That leaves Trade JVG, Trade role players or Trade no-one. I think most everyone now agrees trade no-one isn't the best bet. Regardless of what happens, you have the MLE to work with, but even adding a role player with that, you still don't improve from playoff fodder to championship caliber. So you now have Trade JVG or Trade role players...or both. I vote for both. Regardless of the reasons why, the team hasn't advanced past the first round in years. Soemthing more major than trading role players has to happen, imo, and trading JVG is the only option left. That said, if JVG is back, and the team makes a few role player changes and adds an MLE player, my expectations will still be championship or bust next year.
then why did he play this year with no major injuries to guards? 41% in college. 44% in nba. theres improvement and from further out. also, believe it or not, he has improved his ball handling skills. its still not good, but it is better than last year. so you agree that the best guy off the bench is a one trick pony and the rockets starting PF is not very good outside of his heart. i agree too. ..and thats why the rockets lost. they arent good enough.
i dont think its necessarily expedited by playing time either...see david carr. Hell playing a guy too early can set him. theres no formula. this team was close to going somwhere. They blew a lead to a team that looks like its headed to the WCF.
Four years, no single playoff series win. The experiment is long enough to show whether JVG is a good or bad coach. Time to change. T-Mac is getting slower and Yao is not young anymore. Time to change.
plain and simple, JVG will give some players more playing time because of their attitude, loyalty, demeanor, it might sound crazy but it is what it is, it all depends on how much you obey the ruler 41-43%?! does it say how many 3 point shots he took in Illinois and how many in Houston, take the season he took the most shots in both ways, see how numbers come up...very minimal difference no development in your own house, no championship caliber team
please. that rhetoric gets old. come to play, you're a FREAKING PROFESSIONAL. is that too much to ask? the player ass kissing gets old and disgusting.
To some extent, yes... then you see him give repeated chances to Bonzi, and you wonder if it really is a talent issue. Did he ever refuse to play players that have demonstrated NBA talent? He played Bonzi, he played Snyder (when healthy). He didn't play Spanoulis... but that's not why he would lose his job. Bad personnel decisions in your own house dating back to Rudy's finaly 4 years, = no development = no championship caliber team. Once again... who would you have liked him to develop? Is it V-span again? Man, I really hope he becomes a perennial all-star... because at this point, anything less would be a HUGE dissapointment, given the amount he's been built up. This team has a talent issue... they won 52 games with smoke and mirrors... and your advice is to add more mirrors.
Even if we had beat the Jazz, but lost in the second round, all of this is still true. T-mac is getting slower, Yao is about to peak, and there are no other tradeable commodities that will help this team acquire the talent to compete fast.
let me just say, JVG gave Bonzi time because of what Bonzi did before he came to Houston! Bonzi clearly can play, he gave him a shot, again IMO he gave him the wrong position, if not position, the wrong assignment is the better word....Bonzi gave him a little attitude and as stubborn as JVG is he would not let it go by that easy! JVG owes the guys on our team, he already is a manipulator here is an example, did you see Gundy scream at Yao, if so, why? did you see Gundy scream at TMac, if so, why? if you go that route its clear that it goes much deeper than playing the guys that don't contribute much, JVG got into some of their heads and is playing mind games.... I don't give a crap if he plays Span or whoever, but do not put your ego infront of the team, fans and management...JVG went to far
