Here's 6-4 190 Hornacek's numbers: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jeff_hornacek/index.html Note 46th pick overall, looks like the pundits called that one wrong. Heck of a career actually.
Personally i would rather have a all around player with a great work ethic who gets better shooting as opposed to a one trick pony who doesn't show up when his shot isn't falling. I can look at guys like ricky Davis, Josh howard, he'll even Tracy McGrady who had the all around ability and became better shooters. Thats always the hope if you take a guy like Brewer. Hell, J.Rich, Paul Pierce and Carter weren't good shooter coming in either, but they became good shoter/scorers which is what i want on this team. It was too many times watching the Rox in which out of a double, guy kept launching 3 after 3 after 3. It will always be time when the cracks allow for penetration. One of the reason why the Rox had scoring problems was look where they rank as far as ft atts.
If Redick had a career like Jeff Hornacek's and we managed to get him at number 8, we would all be VERY happy. DD
True, but as pointed out several times, Redick gets to the line a lot more than Brewer and Carney do.
Jeff actually played alot of pg also and could get his shot. Also when they played some guy named mj in the finals, who was guarding Mj at the end? I remember and always like Jeff, JJ is no Hornecek, Hinrich is more like Hornecek than JJ.
He did play at Duke and you couldn't breathe on him there. In the pros you must finish in traffic by attacking and exploding to the rim. So at #8 you want hornecek, right.
If you want to win regular season games then go ahead and take JJ, but i thought the Rox were trying to win it all.
HECK YES !!!! Read the whole thread, getting a starter at number 8 is not guaranteed, more players at 8 or a few picks lower fail than make an impact. Number 8 is not that high of a pick.....we would be lucky to get a guy who averages nearly 15ppg and shoots 50% for his career. How would that be bad? DD
I don't compare them, I was just giving some info since some others have been. I would honestly put Redick more like Michael Redd that's how I see it. I might even say Arenas with less hops, a bit slower, less handle, and better shooting and more range. He's a VOLUME scorer and a lights out shooter.
why would that be lucky? Amare,Marion,Kobe,Dirk,T-Mac,Pierce and guys like that all went 8 or lower. So why should we settle on a guy who might be Jeff hornecek at 8? The Redd comparison is off base also. Redd could always get his shot off.
Leeb, I concur that all those guys went after the number 8 pick, but MANY MANY more that busted went in the 8-12 range than made a difference. We need rotational players NOW to play with Yao and TMac, Redick, Gay & Morrison are probably the 3 most ready to contributue and start, right away. If we get a starter at the number 8 pick in the draft, we should be extremely happy. DD
Redick's release is even quicker than the mna with the quickest release in the NBA, which is Redd. And the high release is the same, the high elevation on the jump is the same, the release at the top of the release point and top of the jump is the same. Redick I believe actually tested better athletically than Redd did. Also that 1 inch Redd has on Redick isn't going to make much difference. And like Redd is #1 in the NBA in needing the littles space of seperation to get off the shot, Redick is about the same in that. Redick is absolutely the SAME in that respect.
gucci, i'm sorry I may have overstated the obvious. You have made plenty of assertions that shooting was not as important as some of us think it is. You, yourself may not have made the exact statement that defense is the #1 priority but there have been many references in support of Brewer because he brings us defense and versatility. Why don't you make clear what is the #1 need on this team like our head coach just did? And then follow that up by saying that it can be solved by having players like Frahm and Padgett hanging around the bench. And I will follow that up by saying, "What a great way to fix the biggest problem on the team, by bringing back a couple of players that are fringe players at best as designated shooters off the bench to hit you 6 ppg and play about 8 mpg and leave undrafted a kid that is the best shooter since Ray Allen." Here is where you imply that J.J. may not be first round material. I think you mean Seattle. Getting Foye/Brewer or Redick/Brewer would be very interesting, but I hope we don't throw in our 2007 1st Rounder. Even though we hopefully won't be picking anywhere near #10 next season, next year's draft is going to be very good IMO. You are not even willing to give up next year's first rounder, a pick probably in the mid 20's, for Redick. Here's another one that implies that Bargnani is too risky and you would take Roy at pick #2 if we were able to trade up to #2 and Aldridge wasn't available. I would take Aldridge if available, Bargnani is too risky IMO, and even if he pans out, it wouldn't be for another 3-4 seasons. Aldridge would provide almost everything we need, rebounding/defense/scoring/and actually provides a combination of being able to contribute now and having a ton of potential. Roy would be my 2nd pick. He's an all around SG that can shoot the ball, he also has good size too. So, apparently you would take Aldridge who is neither a shooter nor a perimeter defender if he were available and we could get up to get him. That makes no sense to me, if Roy and Gay and Morrison were available. Here's a post where you imply that Wesley was great defender against Kobe and the rest last year. So using your own words, why don't we just re-sign Wesley for a couple more years and let him be your "defensive stopper"? Sorry RD, but there is no way you can convince us that JJ is a better defender than Wesley was. Injuries did hamper his D last season, but Wesley was possibly our best defender the season before last. Wesley was a full-time defender on SGs that season, he was the one that guarded Kobe, Lebron, Allen, etc...and he did a very good job on them. Then you go on to imply that Wesley is going to fall off a cliff this summer so we have to get perimeter defense. All this after a year when Wesley missed how many games???? 1. You need to embrace the fact that our greatest need is shooting. Not just because of our lack of shooting........but because shooting is so important on a team with Yao playing the low block. It is doubly important. Not only do we need to improve our shooting, WE NEED SHOOTING TO BE THE STRENGTH OF THIS TEAM BEHIND 111. That is how important it is. 2. This would lead you to conclude that we need go get the best shooters available, with the best range, with the quickest release, and with great basketball iq. 3. You need to admit that perimeter defense, rebounding, and ball handling are secondary to our need for shooters. Because we are a good defensive team already, maybe not great, but we are good, and we are a decent rebounding team already, and we are a decent ball handling team already. We need the monumental improvement in shooting way more than we need the incremental increase in defense, rebounding, and ball handling. In answer to your question, yes, I would take Roy or Bargnani if available. I'd probably take any of the 6 if available. Because the chances are even if they aren't the right fit for us, we should be able to turn a deal with Seattle or Golden State that will not only net us Redick but another player/players also. And if we could not make a deal but we were drafting one of Gay, Morrison, Bargnani, or Roy, then I would just keep them over Redick, Brewer or anybody else that was on the board at #8. Because they all can shoot very well!! And also we would get the added benefit of more size, length, and athleticism. But you cannot put Brewer in their class as a shooter. You cannot even say that Brewer is an average NBA shooter at this stage. He's too risky to take at #8, given what our biggest weakness is and what we need our biggest strength to be behind 111. Redick is the obvious choice at #8 for us if all the big 6 are gone and we canot make a deal to move down for more talent. Brewer is the obvous next choice for us behind Redick. I'd love to have them both but if we have to pick one or the other, we've got to take Redick. 26 ppg, 2 boards, 2 assists vs 18 ppg, 5 boards, 3 assists If every one of those extra rebounds Brewer got was an added extra possesion to his team and created an additional extra 3 point shot and his team shot 50% from the 3 point line, and if the extra assist that Brewer created was a 3 point shot, he still doesn't account for as much offense as Redick accounted for. You can try to make the argument that it was just college. But Redick put up those numbers against a higher level of competition than Brewer did. Redick is the player that can take our biggest weakness and make it our biggest strength.
Over and over the people agsinst Redick have basically just used arguments that are not analytical. Everyone knows he's a better pick for us than Brewer or Carney but they have a particular thing agsinst Redick. If it was some other player like Redick but not Redick I don't think this would even be an argument. Somewhere along the line the media labeled redick one-dimensional or he got branded another Kerr because he's white or whatever. And people just won't let it go even though it is blatantly false. It's just like many people will still insist Yao is soft as tissue paper he will never dominate, he's just another Smits at best, he gets dunked by everyone etc. You can read this thread and tell who watches players and bases opionons on that and who bases it on media branding.
And Brewer had a higher FTRate than Redick. How many of those Redick FT attempts were going to the basket after they closed in on him in the perimeter and how many of those attempts were caused by bad defenders fouling in the perimeter? I would be surprised if the majority of those attempts were not caused by fouls in the perimeter. Why do I ask? Well there are better SGs in the nba with experience who won't make the mistake of fouling a long rang perimeter player. What is Redick's history when he does get a well coached defender and has the perimeter shot taken away? Does he do other things to help the team or does he continue to take volume shots and miss? You can't compare Brewer's offense with Redick's offense. They are two different beasts. Brewer is an all around offensive player (scorer) and Redick is a shooter. I'm not saying the contrary can't be done but it's much easier to shut down a shooter than it is to shut down a scorer. This whole thread is probably a mute point because the Rockets are probably going to surprise us and pick Carney.
1. Good. I hope they don't foul him. Just an open look from the 3 point line will be fine. 2. There is no history of when Redick gets the outside shot taken away from him. 3. If 18 ppg defines a "scorer", than what does 26 ppg mean? Super Scorcher Scorer maybe? Laughing out loud. Pathetic.
Is it just me or does this post not make any sense, you are basically saying a good NBA defender will be able to shut down Redick, who might I add is constantly working without the ball, while he will not be able to contain the "scorer" Brewer who the defenses will basically play off of thus creating more congestion for 111 (I like that ). Defenses will have to play JJ and Brewer differently true but which one will help 111 more; having to defend JJ and stay at home giving Yao particularly more room to operate or being able to sag down off of Brewer allowing them to double down easier on Yao. I was born and raised into Rockets inside-out basketball I know how it worked then and I believe it will work today but you need players who can consistently make teams pay for doubling the post. JJ if nothing else and I think he will end up being more than just a shooter will make teams pay for leaving him.
We can go on and on about Reddick vs Brewer, I'm just saying I've seen this show before. Flash back to a smaller guy who lights up college with a quick realease, no explosion. Anyone remeber Steve Alford? What about Casey jacobson or Kyle korver. Lets take a player who is bigger and does have a ok career in Wally W. who struggles every playoff even while playing with KG. I'm just saying great shooter to me is guys who can get their own shot in college. I don't see Reddick in that way. I look in the finals and i dont see a JJ reddick playing right now. Chew on this, James Posey shoots 40% 3pt fg. I mean here is a guy that could hit the barn, but he has made himself a good 3pt shooter. Raja bell, joe Johnson, Shawn marion were all guys who did other things well, but weren't good shooter until now. Show me a guy who coming out was a "great shooter" that now goes to the rack and finishes. The only guy I can think of is Dirk and he's a 7ft er. Why haven't Mike miller,Dunleavy Jr, Korver and guys like that been able to succeed despite being" great shooters"? In the nba especially todays nba, shots are contested and guys close out on the " shooters and make them put the ball on the floor. The great teams dont even leave "shooters".
If this is you theory, so now JVG is now going to run a Rip Hamilton/Reggie Miller type of offense for JJ? The wing guy in times will have to be able to attack the creases. If the guy keeps firing away and not hitting, you're starting the fastbreak for the other team.
