Let's say that we draft Brewer. He seems to be the opposite of Redick. Brewer did not shoot all that well from 3pt distance and relied on athletic plays to get him his 18ppg. When Brewer gets to the NBA, he won't be bigger, faster or longer than anyone accept Redick. Now Brewer didn't shoot that well from the 3pt line when it was closer and players guarding him had slower closing speeds. Based on the defenses he'll see in college vs. pro, I think Brewer would shoot lower than 30 % in the pros from the 3pt line. That is lower than the Rockets need. We already have guys that can do that. Bogans comes to mind. Redick has been taking NBA 3's since he was a freshmen. He's used to people being quicker, faster, longer and more athletic than him. And he still suceeded because he has a quick release and elevates to shoot. Brewer's athletic advantage will dissappear in the NBA. It's no longer going to get him points or rebounds. It will get him into the NBA, that's it. Redick's shooting ability will not change. He will still be able to drain when he's open. So, why do we need Brewer? Redick also had a bead on himself during college. Everynight. Teams tried to shut him down and didn't. When he gets to the Rockets(assuming Boston doesn't draft him), the bead will be on TMac and Yao. Redick will have freedom he hasn't seen in years. Open lanes he's not used to. You don't need athleticism to hit an open 3 or to drive an open lane. And some of ya'll still want an athletic guy that can't drain a three? I've seen Brewer's point guard skills. He's not even as good as Alston. He won't play PG effectively in the NBA for a significant amount of time. He'll be the defensive specialist. Do we need another Bowen? No. We need a guy who plays like Steve Kerr. Only Steve Kerr wasn't as good in college as Redick was. My arguments don't work for Carney or any of the other guys that can hit the 3 at a decent rate.
I owe you an apolgy, you mentioned 6'4" and under and I misread it as talking about the league you are playing in at the YMCA league. League you are in, at the YMCA I thought that you were comparing Redick's athleticism, to the guys playing on your "C" league team. Completely a reading comprehension brain fart on my part. My sincere apologies. DD
Redick reminds me a bit of that kid that came out of Kentucky (minus the verticle) Rex Chapman. Our biggest problems last year were being able to match up athleticly to other teams at all positions on defense and the inability for any of our players not named Yao or Tmac to make an open shot of any kind while the defense was double teaming the dynamic duo. While we don't match up well at most positions, we still play good enough defense to win games even when we were down to people who could not shoot to save their lives. Defense wins championships, but, if you can't score and can't make the other team put forth an honest effort on both ends of the court, you will lose more than you would like. It is a thing of beauty to hold teams under 90 points but is absolutely worthless when you drop in 80 on offense. You have to have players on offense to make teams pay a price for doubling your star or stars. If you have to defend the whole court, people don't leak out and leave the great Wesleys, Bogans, and Bowens of the world to heave up a Havana. Other teams fast breaks are as much about who the opponent has to defend as much as the athleticism trying to stop it. It would be great to have an athletic Brewer type on our wing to run. However, If the other team don't have to guard him, they now get to run early, or double team off him. I look at all these posts and see some valid points. We take an athlete, we improve defensively and we take Redick and he is a defensive liability. On that point I disagree. 100% of defense is effort, anticipation, angles, and positioning. Athleticism only allows the ability to be lazy and make up for it. If you possess Athleticism and you put forth the effort with the ability to anticipate with great positioning, you will be a shut-down defender but it is not a pre-requisite for great defense and yes defense can be taught to the athletically challenged. I look at all of these arguments and it reminds me of football drafts where everyone argues about how their team shouldn't take the slow guy that plays defense because he doesn't have the athleticism. Can anyone list the accomplishments from the 1996 NFL draft classes first round of linebacker Choices of Cedric Jones, Kevin Hardy, John Mobley, Reggie Brown, and yes the 26th pick Ray Lewis. Of all these "athletes", only one had the effort to go with the ability. What about pick number 154 in the fifth round? A slow guy who could not play athletically in the NFL named Zach Thomas. Except for Ray, he has more pro bowls than the rest of the LB class in all rounds combined. All I'm pointing out is this guy dominated in college and carried it to the pros because he had the motor and effort to help him succeed and the athletes did not have that same motor and were not able to have the same type of career. There are no athletes with great motors who dominated college in this NBA draft. If there was, there would be a consensus number one overall pick and everything else is just speculation. My only hope is the Rockets don't make their picks based entirely off of the individual workouts and they use the entire scope of work of the player. Boki walked in our gym and hit 28 of 30 three pointers in his workout and got himself a top 15 draft position while riding the pine in Europe. I hope they don't just look at Brewers great day in our gym. The Rockets question in this draft should be Do we want to teach a guy to shoot or to play defense?
30 pages! Geez. I don't think I've seen anything new in this thread for the last 10+ pages. This is getting silly. New people come in and just rehash the same pro/con arguments. Con People: We all know you think he isn't athletic. Pro People: We all know that he'll get a lot of wide open shots on the Rockets. From this point forward, as Rome would say, Have a take and don't suck. What else can be said about this guy at this point?
why? Why is he reaching? Because he is saying "your guy" might bust? All of you reddick haters are single sighted. you are only able to reddicks faults and none of the faults of the guys you want to draft.
I don't think any of us are "Redick haters," most of us just feel that he isn't worth the #8 pick. Not sure about you, but I have read a lot about Carney's lack of ball handling skills and motor. I've also read a lot about Brewer's lack of long-range shooting and weird shooting form. I actually think some pro-Redick posters are not recognizing his faults and are just concentrating on his ability to shoot the ball. While Redick can certainly shoot the ball, his lack of size will most likely make him a liability on the defensive side of the ball, even more so because he is not a very athletic player.
no offense intended but your post is the first i remember reading where you guys have mentioned any faults other than reddick' faults........
I remember this non-athletic shooting guard that was 6'4" at best that used to wipe his cheek before each free throw and I hated his a$$ to no end because all he could do was shoot and stick his nose in the middle of every defensive play. Every time we double teamed Karl Malone or John Stockton we had to endure the epic screams of "Horny for threeeeeeeeee". How I hated him but how I would have loved to see him in a Rocket uniform.
Yep yep.....the thing that I am most impressed with on Redick is his motor, and competitivness, we need that DESPERATLY. DD
Exactly! We have drafted guys who could shoot with no heart or desire and athletes who match the same description but rarely have we drafted one that has drive and determination. We have one of the best athletes in the league with the drive of a rock initials SS.
What does it mean to not be able to match up defensively with someone? Answer: They score. Isn't one way to improve the team just to lower the disparity in the matchups? One way to do that is to play better defense; another way is to play better offense. Redick certainly offers great spot-up shooting if not a more well-rounded offensive game. His defense is perhaps unknown. I bet his ball-handling is under-rated-- basically unobserved. I'd be content with Redick (I'm a big Duke fan) at Pick 8 but it all depends on who else is available. I'm leaning towards Brewer. These opinions are cheap but fun! Gosh I love the draft season...
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=113438&page=1&pp=20 I know it's not in this thread, but a lot of posters who want Carney or Brewer recognize that they have faults of their own. I almost forgot, Congratulations on your new family Sofine.
At least we know Redick is very likely to be better than Wesley on both end of the court, and a safe pick at No.8. The same can't be said about Carney or Brewer. There's big question mark on Carney's focus and Brewer's shooting from that's beyond correction. I can live with Wesley's defense as long as he's hitting those 3s at 40%, and Redick is taller and younger. I don't want to live with the scenario of Carney pulling a Stro or Brewer laying bricks. Pick your poison. I'd choose Redick over them.
Hornacek was not even considered an NBA prospect when he was drafted out of Iowa State. He was listed as 6'3" and very non athletic coming off a season where he rang up something like 14 ppg. For most of his college career he was at best the 2nd best player on Iowa State behind the much more athletic, bigger swingman, Barry Stevens, who got all the hype and led the team in scoring. You want another slow, unathletic player at 6'4" who had a career? Anybody here ever heard of Paul Westphal? 6'4" and about as slow and unathletic as they come but he had a rifle. How about "Downtown" Fred Brown. A little shooting guard that topped out at 6'3" who had a sensational career shooting from distance. The NBA's first 3 point leader I believe in 1979-80. Anybody that watched that guy would not define him as athletic. Mark Price - 6 foot nothing shooting guard who the experts said was a sg in a point guard's body, and would be too slow and too small to play in the NBA. Many of them labeled him as a first round bust. Consequently he wasn't taken until the 2nd round. Andrew Toney - 6'3" average athleticism at best. He was Ben Gordon with an attitude. A cold blooded assasin who was an important cog on those 76er teams.
If these guys were all second rounders, I think thats the point. Why waste your lottery pick when there are guys in the second round that might not be genetic lottery winners but have that competitiveness and will to succeed.
