You mean the GMs that have done such an outstanding job that their team is picking in the lottery? Those GMs? DD
I decided to check Carney and Brewer's stats after reading this thread, and they are not very impressive. Between their numbers and the discriptions I have read about them they remind me of like a poor man's TMo, and I remember how well that turned out. Who was the last guy that averaged 17 and 4 as a college senior and turned into a stud in the pros, 'cause that is what Carney was doing for Memphis. Brewer's 18 and 5 is not too impressive either. Mobley put up those kinds of numbers and was all-conference defense and he got drafted in the 2nd round.
I just hate the idea of having a top 10 pick and drafting such an incomplete player. Unless that player is 6'10 and rebounds like a mad-man. When Redick was dropping 28ppg no one was talking about his ball handling. No one mentioned his playmaking. You didn't hear about how well of a rebounder he was.....it was JUST his shooting. Thats it. Now, those holes in his game are supposed to be ignored cause he was a dominant college shooter???
No, they are going to be ignored because SHOOT is all we need him to do. We don't need him to be a rebounder or playmaker or handle the ball. He is going to catch the ball, maybe do a little step back or pump fake and shoot it. We have Yao, Stromile, McGrady, Howard and others to rebound. He's not going to handle the ball and be a playmaker, we have TMac and Rafer and hopefully Mike James to do that and maybe Sura. We need somebody to exactly what guys like Wesley, Head and Bogans have been doing for us the last 2 years. Play OK defense and shoot a ton of wide open jumpers and 3s created by our 2 superstars. Only difference is that Redick can make them. He may not be the most complete player in the draft, but he fits the Rockets the best. Who cares if it is not the the most talented player, he fills our biggest need. It's not like we're some terrible team who needs the best player available period. We have the makor pieces in place, we just need guys around them to do certain things, like shoot. Let's not forget that if Yao and tracy were healthy we'd probably have lost in 7 again to Dallas and been drafting in the mid 20s. Let's not forget we won 51 games and whipped up on the whole league last year, with a vintage back court. Wev'e already improved at PG with a solid younger pure PG in Rafer, we might get a guy in James that is very similar to, and probably as good as Jason Terry. Add in a lights out 3 pt bomber like JJ and you have a very nice backcourt. A frontline that includes an unguardable 7'6 center, a superstar do it all swing man, and a PF who if he got his head out of his ass could be a force. We are close folks, we don't need much.
Has there ever been a college player of the year that really flopped? And TMac#1 that was a great post. DD
If the debate is "all around" game and all around performance then according to this weighted ranking system of ALL AROUND GAME and ALL AROUND PERFORMANCE http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/playerrankings/regularseason/OVERALL?&_1:col_1=1 Redick is a lot better "all around" than Brewer and Carney. Also note that the other players besides Shelden and Jj are in weaker conferences. Overall in the nation player rankings: Overall: 2. JJ Redick 85.58 55. Ronnie Brewer 73.73 133. Rodney Carney 69.99 Guards: http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/playerrankings/regularseason/G?&_1:col_1=1 1. JJ Redick 85.58 23. Ronnie Brewer 73.73 Forwards: http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/playerrankings/regularseason/F?&_1:col_1=1&start_row=51 58. Rodney Carney 69.99 Note that as has already been pointed out Redick played in a much tougher conference against much tougher compettition than Brewer and Carney did. I'm not really sold on this all around argument.
First of all, just because you didn't hear it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Many sports journalists are incredibly simplistic in their analysis and you can't rely on them to give full analysis of a player's game. Redick's shooting was discussed the most because that's his most obvious attribute, but it doesn't necessarily mean those other areas are holes. Second, Redick played in the ACC, not the local YMCA or the Southland Conference or anything like that. You don't average 28 points a game in the ACC if all you can do is shoot. Redick has greatly underrated ball-handling skills that allowed him to punish overaggressive defenders by taking the ball inside and scoring either on 8-10 foot midrange jumpers or driving all the way to the basket and drawing a foul. You don't score 28 ppg in that conference and against that competition if all you are is a spot-up shooter that depends on others to create off the dribble for you. You have to do a lot of creating off the dribble yourself, and that's what Redick did. However, his shooting is so obvious an attribute that these other aspects of his game got overlooked, and thus a lot of people don't know he can do those things. He can. He's a great shooter, but he's also an excellent scorer as well.
This guy was dropping huge games on big time teams with big time talent. ANd not doing it on horrible team. He did it at perennial #1 powerhouse Duke. He did it agianst guys like Chris Paul, Raymond Felton, Rashad McCants, and others. He dropped 41 on a loaded Texas team. He is playing at the highest level of college hoops and putting up staggering #s. And the thing is, on this team all he needs to be is a role player to do one thing. He doesn't need to score 25 a night grad 7 rebs and 5 asts. He just needs to shoot. He can do it. I also imagine that seeing his work ethic and intensity and effort, has got Van Gundy really thinking about him. Those are the kind of players he likes. BTW what do you guys think of a comparison between JJ and Allan Houston?
<TABLE border="1"> <CAPTION><EM>College (Final Seasons)</EM></CAPTION> <TR><TH> <TD>PPG<TD>FG%<TD>FT%<TD>3P% <TR><TH>JJ Redick<TD>26.8<TD>.470 (302/643)<TD>.863 (221/256)<TD>.421 (139/330) <TR><TH>Salim Stoudamire<TD>18.4<TD>.504 (210/417)<TD>.910 (122/134)<TD>.504 (120/238) <TR><TH>Luther Head<TD>15.9<TD>.463 (214/462)<TD>.788 (78/99)<TD>.410 (116/283) </TABLE> <TABLE border="1"> <CAPTION><EM>NBA 2006</EM></CAPTION> <TR><TH> <TD>PPG<TD>FG%<TD>FT%<TD>3P% <TR><TH>David Wesley<TD>9.9<TD>.403 (226/561)<TD>.808 (151/187)<TD>.365 (99/271) <TR><TH>Luther Head<TD>8.8<TD>.403 (254/630)<TD>.699 (86/123)<TD>.361 (113/313) <TR><TH>Salim Stoudamire<TD>9.7<TD>.415 (204/492)<TD>.900 (99/110)<TD>.380 (82/216) </TABLE>
I'm not sure what your point is, but based on that, if Redick had the same dropoff that Head did from college to the Rockets (probably same role on offense) he would average 14.8 points as a rookie, and keep in mind again Redick played in a tougher conference, so the dropoff probably should not be as big. Also that shows that guys that were not double teamed and trapped in college still shot 40 and 36 in the NBA, what would Redick a guy was doubled and trapped do then without getting that at NBA and on the Rockets getting many open shots. 15 points per game and a solid shooting percentage looks reasonable for Redick as a rookie with the Rockets based on that.
Could we ask for more from our 8th pick than 14.8 points per game? I think he would likely score about 11 or 12 points per game in his first year. But he would of course pick up his scoring and other faucets of the game as he became accustomed to them.
"My wife and I just had our first baby, Ainslee Rayne.....Daddy loves you Sweetie!" That's going to make Ainslee so happy when she logs on next time and reads this post...
Yet as bad as their teams are, none in the Top 10 seem to be interested in him. Why would that be? I mean, he's the all-time leading scorer for the ACC, player of the year, played in a hard coference, etc... Why is it that guys like Roy, Gay, Morrison, M. Williams, and Carney are all being rated higher and will most likely go before JJ? I like Redick, I think he will be a good player in the NBA. We need shooting on this team, but do we need to spend a #8 pick for one? I'm confident we can find shooting through trades and FA.
Two words. Garret Temple. Redick surely would have been a top 5 pick if had a monster game against LSU but that game dropped him 5-10 places in the draft.
The Rockets are in the top 10 and have expressed interest in him, so you are arguing based on a faulty assumption. I also wouldn't be so certain that Carney will go before Redick if I were you.
players fall for various reasons every single year... the first player taken rarely seems to end up being the very best player of that class. why do guys like mobley, redd, arenas, rashard, etc.. go in the second round? certainly they just weren't rated high. drafts are hit and miss. i don't know much about college basketball but i LOVE those reddick clips. he certainly doesn't look slow and that jumper is lightning quick on the release. considering he'll be playing with two of the best players in the nba i don't think him being able to get his shot off will be any kind of problem. right now he's my guy at eight should roy, morrison, or gay not fall to us. i'd also look hard at brewer and sheldon williams. reading this forum does not get me excited about carney at all.
I've been one of the Redick supporters, so this will sound odd coming from me. Carney is worth getting excited about. He's big, can drive, can rebound, is quick and he CAN shoot too. In fact, he's one of the better 3pt shooters coming out. I think his handles are the only weakness and handles are easy enough to improve with practice. I think it's easier to improve your dribble than it is to improve your shot. Carney is the 4th best shooting option at the swing in this draft (1. Morrison, 2. Roy, 3. Redick, 4. Carney) and he can play at least two positions and maybe 3 if we go small(PF). I would not be upset if we nabbed Carney. You can look at the problems he had with being lost, but he still scored 17 points/game when he was lost. He also played limited minutes. He would have scored more if his coach could have gotten thru to him. Maybe JVG and supportive Rocket teammates would be able to get thru to him and he could turn into a star. School can be very distracting for anyone. Rodney is now a full time basketball player. I think he can be very very good in the right situation and with the right teachers.
This is NOT college. For this team right now, I'll take a guy that contributes by doing nothing great but everything really, really well over a guy that does only one thing great.
I disagree, most of the mocks I saw had JJ in the 10-15 range for most of the season. Even if JJ had a monster game, guys like Thomas/Aldridge/Morrison/Gay/Roy/and possibly Bargnani would still be ranked higher than him. Both Thomas and Aldridge ended the season w/ TERRIBLE games as well and they are still Top 3 picks (but bigs always get picked higher).
I would think that they Rockets are interested in trading down and picking up Redick, but it's an assumption like you said. Moniker- Do you think Redick will go in the Top 10?
