Watching a bunch of clips of him shooting three's isn't going to tell me anything I already didn't know and the clip of him putting the ball behind his back was nice but nothing to base an argument off of. I'm not trying to suggest Redick has absolutely no handle at all. I'm also not trying to suggest its not an area capable of being improved. All i'm saying is I consider his ability to handle the ball right now to be below average by NBA standards since there are some who think he may need to learn to play the point because of his lack of size. There's some risk involved with that. What if we took him and he proved to be ineffective as a SG? Aside from moving him to the bench, which isn't exactly what you expect from a #8 overall draft pick on a team lacking depth to begin with, what if our only other option was to try to develop him as a PG? Now, I know we haven't agreed on much here but I would honestly just throw the towel in on this argument if you would disagree with me suggesting there's no way Redick's handle is good enough for him to be able to run the point. I'm all for taking him if we trade down but I absolutely hate the idea of spending a top 10 draft pick on guy who might end up being a career bench player. I love the guy's ability to hit shots and the Rockets desperately need that but even sharp shooters have their off-nights. If his shot isn't falling what else is he really going to contribute? What if he can't defend SG's and giving him significant minutes proves not to be an option? The "switch-a-roo" wouldn't work since Alston is a poor defender lacking size to defend SG's. What do you do in this situation? Something about the idea of having possibly three bad defenders (Redick, Alston, Howard) on the floor isn't going to work. What has been one of our biggest problems? Dribble penetration. With Redick's probable shortcomings on defense combined with Alston's already poor defense, by drafting Redick with the intention of making him a starter we're doing nothing to address this problem.
Gee...a team has it's eye on a player and they let every other team know how he worked out. What a novel concept. Ever stop to think that he "did surprisingly well" equates to they thought he was the slug most of us think he is and he turned out to be average?
What they actually need is a guy with the size and athleticism of a Brewer with the mad offensive skills and attitude of a JJ Redick and that guy simply won't be there for them to pick in the 8th slot. If they can't get a Roy or a Bargnani then I say go for Brewer. Their attitude has to be that they miss on a player from now on, they will miss on a player with some size.
Gucci, No, what I am saying is that at player 8 they are not any can't miss products, including Redick. But, at least we KNOW that Redick can shoot, and that is something the team desperatly needs. If I am going to take a risk and draft a player, I want one that is smart, competitive, and is special in at least one area (Redick qualifies). I do not base my opinions about basketball players on how high they can jump, or how tall they are, but more about whether they can play the game. IMHO, Redick is one of the most pro ready players coming into the NBA this year, is he the best prospect, no, but he can shoot the ball in a league where shooting is a lost art. Again, IMHO, heart matters more than physical tools (See Miles, Swift, Brown) etc...etc...etc..... DD
Thats not paraphrasing what was said about Redick, that's glamorizing what what was said about Redick. I'd like to see those workout reports about Redick. Here is what Dave Twardzik said about Redick: "He's a guy who has had a bull's-eye on his chest the past two years and a target for defenses and fans," Magic Assistant General Manager Dave Twardzik said. "He competes, plays the right way, makes big shots, has a tremendous feel for the game and moves well without the ball." "I think he's smart enough, and he uses a lot of little nuances on how to get open," Twardzik said. "He knows how to use the screen, he knows how to set his man up and he's gotten tremendously better at getting his shot off quicker so he doesn't need as much space. Offensively, he can flat-out play." We all know all he moves without the ball, use screens, has a pretty good BBall IQ and can shoot but athletic, create his own shot, defend and getting off his own shot in an iso against a taller athletic player. I think not. He's too short and unathletic to make a dramatic impact in the NBA and the comparisons to Redd are way off base, Redd is 6'6" and while not the quickest SG in the NBA, he can create his own shot and dunk. Redick is slow as molasses, you can count the number of seconds it takes him to drive the lane and I have never seen him dunk. His defense will be his achilles heel in the NBA, he will either be on the bench because he is in foul trouble or he will be an NBA sieve if he doesn't try to get in front of his man.
Ok, Here is where we are losing traction between the 2 camps? We do not need Redick to get off his own shot....he will COMPLIMENT Yao and Tmac and feed off of THEM setting the table. Redick is best for the Rockets TEAM !!!! Not the best athlete, nor the best defender, not the best overall player, but, THE BEST FIT !!! That is why I like the guy, he plays with fire, he plays smart, he makes big shot after big shot. The guy fits into a Yao Ming inside out offense, and that is what we are going to be running for the next 10 years. DD
It's funny how people keep saying "Redick = Laettner" like that means he will stink it up. Again evidence of not watching players enough. Laettner suffered a back injury in Minny that caused him to lose speed, he then suffered a knee injury in Atlanta that caused him to lose flexibility. Even AFTER the back injury he managed to be an all star in Atlanta. A break down of what he did in the league..... Before the back injury and knee injury: rookie year: 18.2 points per game 8.7 rebounds per game 2.8 assists per game 1.3 steals per game 1.02 blocks per game 2nd year: 16.8 points per game 8.6 rebounds per game 4.4 assists per game 1.2 steals per game 1.2 blocks per game 3rd year: 16.3 points per game 7.6 rebounds per game 2.9 assists per game 1.3 steals per game 1.1 blocks per game 4th year: 18.0 points per game 6.9 rebounds per game 2.9 assists per game .9 steals per game 1.0 blocks per game 5th year (after the back injury - production went down): 14.2 points per game 7.9 rebounds per game 2.3 assists per game 1.0 steals per game .9 blocks per game 6th year (started to recover more): 16.4 points per game 7.3 rebounds per game 2.7 assists per game 1.0 steals per game 1.0 blocks per game 7th year (finally recovered from back injury but note still was not as fast as before YET made all stars this year): 18.1 points per game 8.8 rebounds per game 2.7 assists per game 1.2 steals per game .8 blocks per game 8th year (suffered the knee injury lost mobility): 13.8 points per game 6.6 rebounds per game 2.6 assists per game 1.0 steals per game 1.0 blocks per game after this his production continued to slide as between the back injury (loss of some speed and flexibilty and the knee injury - loss of more sped and mobility and then the fact of age - wear and tear miles on the body and losing athleticism because of age - THEN he became the player people here are talking about) He was HARDLY a "scrub" like being implied here earlier in his career, not sure who thinks there 8 pick choice is going to give THAT kind of production. So the argument that Redick will suck because he's like Laettner, based on the old Laettner after age and major injuries is obviously very poorly thought and constructed. I am sure most fans are not expecting to get anything close to the type of player Laettner was initially with that 8 pick. Either than or they are arguing that if Redick = Laettner they beleive Carney or Brewer or Shelden or someone is a 20/10 type player for many years.........
1. That was why several videos were posted, perhaps you should watch them, you might find it helpul especially about the he can't dunk part. 2. So is there no place in the league for players that can't dunk in games (Stockton) or aren't so quick on defense (Nash)?
Shooting can be taught. I think some people forget this. Tracy couldn't shoot when he first came into the league. Not to be over the top but his improvement as a shooter has been nothing short of amazing. There has been a long list of permiter players who's outside shot was questionable earlier in the career to only see their shot become a big part of their games. JJ Redick's biggest (and only) attribute is his shooting. YOU DONT DRAFT SHOOTING!!! Not when you're in the lottery. Not when there's at least 3 players who play the same position and are better in almost every other aspect of basketball. PLaying with Tracy and Yao is not gonna make Redick 2 inches taller. Its not gonna cover up his flaws. He would bring shooting to the table. Those other players (Carney, Brewer & Roy) will bring ball handling, playmaking and athleticism & versitlity to the table. You can never have too many players who are versitale....being mulitskilled is a good thing people. Being athletic isn't some disease that should be knocked because you aren't pure shooter.
1) I could put a highlight video together that'll make Dirk look better than Hakeem 2) off course you dont be athleticly gifted to excel in the pros....but he's a damn shooter. Find the last "shooter" taken in the lottery and see how that picked turned out. You dont draft shooting.
Great skills and mediocre athleticism can get you far; great athleticism and mediocre skills will get you no where. Redick is the former, Carney seems to be the latter, and Brewer seems to be a mixture of the two. Personally, I would go with Redick and bring him off the bench for 15-20 minutes a game at PG and SG.
Although one can improve as a shooter, I think there's also a ceiling to how good of a shooter players can become. See, e.g. Shaquille O'Neal shooting free throws. I think the premise that Redick's shooting ability now is higher than the ceiling of any of the other guards in the draft is pretty much unquestioned. Obviously, there are players who added 3pters to their repertoir later in careers, but natural shooters like Redick don't come along too often... If you can do one thing extraordinarily well, you will be a good player in the NBA... None of the other guards being considered has that one extraordinary attribute.... Of course, the other players being considered, well, there's one thing in addition to shooting where they pale in comparison to Redick - and that's being a basketball player. BTW: In his 1st 4 years in the league, McGrady shot 45.2% from the field and 32.2% from behind the line; in his last two years with the Rockets, McGrady shot 42.1% from the field and 32.1% from behind the line... If there's been any improvement, it hasn't been amazing. Indeed, Tracy McGrady was a BAD 3pt shooter last season.
After seeing those clips, I thought of another comparison. How about a shorter Reggie Miller? I don't know why I never thought of it. 1. Reggie was far from a perfect physical specimen, although he was 6'7". 2. Both have unlimited range. 3. Neither are going to break you down off the dribble often. 4. They both like to get open by running through a barrage of picks. 5. Both have quick releases, while Redick has better form (which may allow for a higher shooting percentage.....scary). 6. Both are primarily jump shooters with high release points and good elevation considering their athletic ability. 7. Neither have to have their feet set to get off the shot. Even a Reggie-lite would be perfect for this team. What do you guys think about that comparison?
What skill(s) are you talking about??? His "skill" is shooting....thats it. He has ONE great skill and is mediocre at everything else including athleticism. So why exactly should Houston ignore all the things he lacks and focus on the one thing he's great at??? I dont believe you honestly think Ray Allen was consider just a "shooter" coming out of Uconn. I could care less about his %. His FG% is the reflection of the types of shots he takes...and last season was the worst year of career. He's a better shooter today than he was 6 years ago.....its pretty easy to see.
He is great at moving without the ball and getting open, he is great at getting himself open with very few dribbles, he is an ok passer, and he is ok at finishing at the rim. Athletcism is not a skill. Sheldon Williams is the player I really want though...
Why not? If we're hoping for Brandon Roy (who is also on my short list), we would be talking up Redick. An "average" guy does not score 28 points game after game in one of the toughest seasons in college basketball.
Shooting = points. Athleticism = highlight. Rox points > Opponent points = win. We need wins and more points in this league translates pretty well. We don't need our picks to rebound or block shots so we don't need height. We need them to score and get in front of defenders. Redick may not have size, but he does play hard. Defense is usually effort and smarts, not athleticism. Whoever we draft (assuming it's a swing), we need to develope the advantages that the player brings in our style. If we draft Carney or Brewer, we need to play defensively/big and try to get fast break points. With a shooter we can slow it down and play playoff style basketball all year long. I know JVG would like to play one way all year long and just increase intensity during the playoffs. It's much better than changing the foundation of your style because you can't run a break anymore. A Tyrus Thomas, Bargani, Aldridge or Morrison falling to 8 changes everything.
Shooting mechanics can be taught. But shooting is a skill that is developed by endless repitition and countless hours spent in the gym. J.J. has already put in that time. He's already there. You can't just teach shooting in two weeks and wala all of a sudden Manute Bol turns into Dirk Nowitzki. When players get to the NBA, they should have already developed some shooting skills. Any player can develop any of their skills when they get to the NBA but they are developing them from the standpoint of where they were when they entered the league. What that means is, you can take a guy that shoots 35% in his first year in the league and if you are lucky, over the course of a few years, with teaching and relentless offseason practice by said player, you may be able to turn him into a 40-44% shooter. But you will be stretching the envelope. And the dude can survive in the NBA as long as he has another outstanding skill to rely on to make a living such as defender, rebounder, etc. But a player that is a subpar shooter or even an average shooter before he gets to the NBA is not going to be able to elevate his shooting percentages to be considered a top shooter in the NBA. Shooting is the most important basic fundamental skill of basketball. All the other fundamentals are important, but there will always be a place in the NBA for a guy that can shoot the lights out even though he may not be able to do anything else worth a hoot. Just remember Kyle Korver. Dude is on his way to making $50 million and he can't do a thing but shoot. He's a liability in every other area. Don't even tell me that he can pass and rebound. His entire game is predicated around shooting. He throws good passes because of teams running players at him. It makes him look like a good passer but if he didn't have the ability to knock down the shot, he wouldn't even be able to pass. If he could not shoot the ball, he would not even be in the NBDL much less the NBA. To the guy that says shooters aren't drafted, you don't know what you are talking about. Of the top 25 3 point shooters of all time, only 2 of them weren't taken in the first round and interestingly enough that was the 1998 draft that is littered with first round busts where 1 of the top 25 3 point shooters of all time were drafted in the 2nd round (Vernon Maxwell) and the other was passed over altogether (John Starks). The overall draft positions of those 25 are: 11, 5, 9, 4, 14, 10, 10, 14, 5, 11, 12, 47 (Maxwell), 15, 6, 9, 6, undrafted (Starks), 4, 4, 15, 14, 23, 5, and 7. Probably half of those guys had other abilities that were considered average by NBA standards and half of them really could not do much else besides shoot the basketball. If you take the shooting ability of those players down to just average NBA level, most of them are low first round pick to undrafted players who have journeyman NBA careers or no NBA career at all. For 2006, we were 29th in the league in points scored per game, and we were 3rd in the league in points allowed per game. Sure, a lot of that was the injuries. But our defense was good enough even with all the injuries that if we had any kind of shooting on our team at all, we would have squeezed into the playoffs. The year before we won 51 games with an offense that was ranked just 21st in the league in points scored and 3rd in the league in points given up. And we took the team that is currently playing in the Finals down to a game 7. It should be as plain as the nose on your face that the number one need on this team is shooters. That is why Redick is in the discussion. It is why James should be our top offseason priority. Van Gundy has proven that he is a good enough coach to make our defense good even if we are throwing trash out there like last year. We need SHOOTING.
...one of those players being Michael Redd himself. I remember NOT remembering him as a shooter out of college (whatever happened to Scoonie Penn?), and that he developed his shot after he got into the league, surprising a lot of people after unveiling his new/improved shooting in his 2nd year (8 threes on our heads in one quarter that year, I believe). He even confirms this himself: It was just work. In college, I wasn't known as a shooter. I was known as a slasher, get to the rim. Now, in the NBA, I'm known as a shooter. I worked at it every summer. Sam Cassell. Those guys could all shoot it. Tim Thomas could shoot it. In order for me to play, I had to know how to shoot it. I'd take 500 to 1,000 jumpers a day in the summer. I'd stay in the gym constantly. I still do. Shoot, shoot, shoot. I think the best moment I ever had on the court was probably when I had nine threes in one game, eight in one quarter. That's an NBA record. Crazy. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...oudredd,1,529287.story?coll=cs-ctbearsplayoff Just wanted to throw this into the mix since Redd was been brought up. Not saying we should or shouldn't take Redick. I have no idea either way.
