Chron: Rockets take first step towards keeping Posey

I agree with leebigez about the role player issue. Throwing too much money at role players is THE way to make sure your team is doomed.

 

Glad to see the Rockets with their head on straight. We should try to resign Posey and the offer price is just right. I hope the intangibles are enough to have him take the offer, but if he doesn't, then we'll get to see a lot more of Boki which would be just as cool.

 

I would really like to keep JP. But PLEASE no more Moochie, Taylor or Cato contracts.

 

This is just a formality.

The Rockets have no say on what that offer price is or isn't. That dollar amount is mandatory for claiming first right of refusal. it is written into the CBA based on his draft position....you can't offer him more or less than that amount, if we want to make him a restricted free agent.

We also had until the end of the month to make the qualifying offer or he becomes unrestrictive, so the timing is mandatory, as well.

Collier did not have his 4th yr option picked up before last season. So he becomes unrestricted this summer--after 3yrs.

i'm with everyone else here: I don't remember TMo getting a 3yr contract. NBA News Daily has him at a 2yr contract, but Patricia has him at a 3yr contract (but no t-opt mentioned).

 

For those of you who think Hawk can do the things Posey can, were you watching the games last season? Hawk sucks. He can't create opportunities nearly as good as Posey, and he is not as good offensively. I don't mind that he can't create on offense, but he had a habit of taking way too many stupid shots. When we have Francis and Yao in there why the hell should he be shooting at all? I can't tell you how frustrated I became watching him shoot those bricks.

There is a reason Rudy stopped playing him after the first couple of months and went with Posey over Hawk. It's because he stunk up the joint.

Posey is athletic, is a better defensive player, and is awesome on the fast break.

 

I'm assuming Posey wants a long term deal for like 5 years. If so, I say a reasonable offer is 5 yrs, $22.5 million. That's the market rate for a guy with his skills. With a reasonable contract, he can be a tradeable commodity if he doesn't work out under Van Gundy.

 

I can see another team offering their whole MLE for Posey. But, I can't see a team with cap space wasting it on him when you've got legit stars to offer it to. Maybe the teams that strike out with the franchise guys might offer it to Posey, but even there, they'd probably be better off using the cap space to make a trade or to save for next year. So, I think Posey is capped at the MLE, essentially. Btw, I bet Dallas makes him an offer; he'd fit well there.

If we are outbid for Posey, do you think we can S&T him?

 

Duece,

I think you are a little off base. Cat only has a six year 31 million dollar contract and he signed it as a non-restricted free agent. Last year Cat only made 4.9 million so I really don't see where you think Posey automatically starts at 5 million a year.

Posey has not been the type of impact player that Cat has been and he has not been viewed as a particularly good offensive player. While he was with the Nuggets in his last season he might have been one of the top two offensive options but he will never be one of the top three options in Houston or just about any other NBA team.

Posey is a nice role player that plays good defense, runs the floor well but is still developing offensively. Due to inflation I could possibly see Posey getting a similar contract to Cat but certainly not a bigger one. Plus few teams in the NBA are going to be able to offer more than the MLE so that also limits Posey's leverage.

Personally I would like to see his contract kept at 4 million a year or less. I would also be against anything more than 4 years. As someone else pointed out, it just does not make sense to tie up role players in 6 year contracts. Certainly MLE type of money is the absolute best Posey can even remotely hope to get for obvious reasons.

 

only cornerstones of the franchise should be locked into long term deals. role players should be kept to 4 years or less contracts. the reasoning is that you, truly, can interchange the role players, if your cornerstones are performing to their maximum capabilities. it's the job of the cornerstone(s) to make those role players better.

as much as i like jpo, he will be nothing more than a role player on this team - albeit a very good roleplayer. so, if he's looking for more than 4 years...maybe even 5...i'd have to trade him or let him go.

 

I honestly believe S&Ts are worked out more from the agent's end than the team's end. So where you ask 'can we S&T him,' I tend to look at it from the agent's perspective..."can *he* get a S&T from his player."

Historically, S&Ts are done mainly to get the player more money. Since it is a safe bet that Posey will get a team to give him the MLE, we can probably safely assume that he'd just use his Bird rights here for the same price here. If he can find more than the MLE, then it will likely be through his agent's doing to work a SnT....so, imo, that answers your question. as in, if we are outbid above the MLE, it will more than likely be due to a SnT scenario happening via his agent. If we have no intention of paying the MLE, then our SnT chances dwindle considerably, as his agent won't need a SnT to find an MLE rate somewhere.

 

The problem with the Cat salary comparrison is that Cat took LESS than market value to stay in Houston. So that is not a fair comparrison. Toronto was offering more if I remember correctly. Perhaps Posey will take less than market value but I would not bank on it.

Looking back on my previous statements perhaps I was too generous. I agree with the assesment that teams will only offer Posey the MLE. No one with "cap room" (i.e. more than the MLE) is going to offer Posey a contract. I just don't see it. So that means our only competition is the MLE which any team over the cap can offer him. Being realistic, more than likely we would then only have to sign him for a little more than the MLE which is at 4.5 million (Crash, I would love if we could get him for 4 million or less but I don't see that realistically happening). So perhaps around 5 million for Posey? Again, it is not so much the salary that I would be looking at but number of years.

 

meant to type "for his player."

 

I'm pretty sure nobody will offer Posey more than the MLE, but that doesn't mean the Rockets won't end up paying him more than the MLE. I don't remember teams offering Cato, Taylor, or Moochie even close to the contracts they received so you never know with the Rockets. They may end up paying him 6 mil. per when the next highest bidder is only offering 3 mil.

 

New Jack,

Cato, Taylor and Moochie were not restricted free agents. The market is better defined in restricted free agents. Another team would have to sign him, then we get to meet it or refuse it. there is no bluffing. the first team's contract might be more than "market," but at least we'd see someone ink a binding contract before we have to commit.

 

It's a really good situation for us. Hopefully we will not overpay.

 

I am certainly no cap expert. But I think becasue he is a restricted free agent, if he signs with us it will mean that we matched an offer Posey received from anothre team (or no offers came and we got him for the clearly low qualifying offer). That meas that if we do match, at least two GM's thought it was a fair salary.

 

Pat- the qualifying offer is a set thing, based on their scale. This was just a preliminary thing, to assure us right of first refusal. Basically, it assures us the right to match offers, and only if no one makes an official offer and we don't come to an agreement with Posey will he be playing for the qualifying offer. This happened with Olowokandi last year, because he didn't want to sign a low ball long term deal with the Clippers, and the Clippers would have matched most mid range deals with other clubs. Now, he's unrestricted.

crash- Mobley was a restricted free agent, which limited his offers to basically us or going to Toronto or Chicago.

Further, that was a different time. MCE was only 2.25. Ron Artest got 6 years, 42 mill. Posey's not as good as Artest, but I think that Artest should be the scale from which we pay Posey.

One reason a team would make a sign and trade would be to save the MCE for someone else. A team like Dallas may want both Posey and PJ Brown/Karl Malone/Alonzo/etc. A sign and trade would allow them to make both (although, I don't think there's any available player from Dallas we would have any interest).

The Posey situation should be interesting. He has proven to be a well above average defender, extremely athletic, good size for a wing, awesome on the break, and a solid for chemistry. Suddenly, over the last several weeks of the season, he became a lights out shooter as well. What will it be worth?

 

whatever we do, posey should be the #1 priority for the offseason. He has a great future in the league and is one of the best defenders we've had since mad max

 

Thanks for the aplification NIKE. Am I correct in believing the the MCE is equal to the average salary league wide?

 

This list was on cnnsi.com. I wonder if the Rockets think of James Posey as a Secondary Star. I wonder how many other teams in the league think of him this way. If so, we might have to pay a higher price to keep him.

The Superstars
Elton Brand
Jason Kidd
Jermaine O’Neal
Tim Duncan

Secondary Stars
Andre Miller
Brad Miller
Lamar Odom
Michael Olowokandi
James Posey
Jerry Stackhouse
Jason Terry

Rising Studs
Gilbert Arena
Corey Maggette

Oldies but Goodies
Karl Malone
Reggie Miller
Alonzo Mourning
Gary Payton
Scottie Pippen

Role Players
Darrell Armstrong
Jon Barry
P.J. Brown
Elden Campbell
Derrick Coleman
Lucios Harris
Juwan Howard
Stephen Jackson
Rasho Nesterovic
Ira Newble
Kenny Thomas

B-Listers
Kenny Anderson
Raja Bell
Calbert Cheaney
Speedy Claxton
Antonio Daniels
Kendall Gill
Dion Glover
Adrian Griffin
Othella Harrington
Tyrone Hill
Lindsey Hunter
Jim Jackson
Tyronn Lue
Jerome Moiso
Lee Nailon
Eric Piatkowski
Erick Strickland
Gary Trent
Charlie Ward
Scott Williams
Shammond Williams
Walt Williams