Exactly, all Melo has to do is say NO to New Jersey and we automatically enter the picture in a leading role. Meanwhile, Morey’s strategy is sweet-talking Denver like a persistent Don Juan, right now they are all high and all with NJ, but if that turns into a no-go then Denver falls right into Morey’s lap, and if he gets Denver then Melo’s next for courtship. Morey’s playin as we speak.
I still don't understand the point 'renting Melo'. Even if he was S&T just who the Knicks giving us that equals his salary in return? Curry will be off the books so they can't come any where close.
I am sure Bima and everybody else knows this, but the fact is it has backfired on them. And which Jedi-mind tricks did Walsh pull off? NONE. Two facts remain intact: 1) Morey owned Walsh in that trade, history shows he overpaid in shedding JJ's salary and the move eventually backfired on him. 2) The lure of the most popular city in the world is always there. If Carmelo goes to NY it won't make Walsh look any more a genius than Juwan Howard is for being in Miami.
What part??? Again, the ONLY benefit the Knicks ended up with that they could not have gotten without the Rockets trade was getting Raymond Felton (at the cost of Jordan Hill, a 2012 first rounder, being able to currently trade any first round pick before 2014, and having Jeffries's expiring contract to help the Knicks take on more salary from Denver in a trade for Melo). If you think Melo would not have wanted to go to the Knicks without Raymond Felton, then so be it. The Rockets trade helped the Knicks in that regard. But the Rockets trade IN NO OTHER CONCEIVABLE WAY helped the Knicks vis-a-vis getting Melo. None. Nada. Zero. Zilch.
Why are you getting so defensive about the Rocket's role in creating NY's cap room? NY could have created cap room to sign their superstar(s) by trading with just about anybody. The fact of the matter is that Houston was their trading partner and they acquired a huge expiring contract in McGrady which has/will allow them to sign their stars and potentially superstars. The trade NY-Houston trade has intended and unintended consequences that still hasn't played to its ultimate conclusion.
It's like arguing with a brick wall. What consequences? The trade has already played out. Jeffries would have been gone by this summer anyway. Other than Hill (~$2.8M), the trade will have had zero impact on the Knicks' cap situation beyond this season. There are no "unintended consequences" other than Raymond Felton. I admitted that at the outset. My point is (and always has been) that the Rockets-Knicks trade did not positively affect (either intended or unintended) the Knicks' chances at Melo outside of Felton helping the Knicks win some games. The Rockets trade actually adversely affected the Knicks' ability to make a deal for Melo, both from an asset standpoint (no Hill or picks) and a salary cap standpoint (no Jeffries to be able to absorb up to an additional $8.7M+ in salaries from Denver to facilitate a Nuggets salary dump to get Melo). These are facts. Not opinions. Brick wall.
Yeah. Our leverage next season won't be anywhere near what Denver's is before the trade deadline, especially if we can't pick the team to whom we're trading him. Something else that muddies it up is, Melo really needs to sign the new contract this year. If not, he will lose a ton of money come July 1. No matter what NY has, we won't get back what we paid to get him.
Yep, you're right. But the Rockets would at least have a window to negotiate exclusively with Melo on an extension for 4 months. If it turns out that Melo says "no" to Houston, a sign-and-trade deal will allow the Rockets to salvage SOMETHING. Again, like you said, it won't be as much as the Rockets give up for Melo in the first place. But is that "asset gap" worth the risk/reward of having leverage over Melo for 4 months? What would be very interesting is to see what getting a huge trade exception could do to the Rockets from a cap management standpoint, both this coming offseason through and including the 2012 offseason.
So... you get offended when someone calls you a "company man", but you are sure easy to diss when others disagree with you. You da man, Bima.
Not so, If Morey plays his cards right. If acts as the middle man to give Melo what he wants (which is a large contract and to play in NY), gives the Knicks what they want (which is Melo and a long term contract). If Melo doesn't want to stay with the Roxs after seeing what a well run organization it is.. :grin: you know Morey will do everything he can to persuede Melo to stay If and when Morey lands Melo, he lands Melo's contract. Which puts him in the drivers seat. Morey can now give him more $$$ than anyone else which is what Melo wants, that and being in NY. NY wants Melo. Morey makes everyone happy, but Morey wants something too. But what is it? Doesn't have to be from the Knicks, there could be a third team. When you have the upper hand, (which Morey would if he owns Melo's contract). Wouldn't you think the Knicks would be happy if Morey could help them out. Don't you think Morey would deserve something for his troubles? BTW, don't you know Morey is always two steps ahead of everyone else?
When the trade came off it looked good but it never deserved the Gasol and KG type hype that fans were crediting Morey for. Morey was made to look like a King. I am just upset because the rights to swap picks in 2011 is useless now. So we basically end up with thier 2012 pick only. NY will only get better as a team by 2012, so the 2012 pick will most likely be in mid 20s. Useless. JJ+Hill+Late 2012 pick isnt really as awesome as everyone claiming to be. Rockets fans make it sound like Morey pulled off a Gasol type trade. Far from it!! Martin came from Sac and that was the only good piece. As far as NY, JJ+Hill+late 2012 pick is worth less than the hair on my bum.
Sorry, my bad. Perhaps that last post was a bit harsh. No personal offense intended. I will stand by my point, however. I am stating facts that directly relate to the Knicks' ability to acquire Carmelo Anthony. If you were to ask Donnie Walsh himself, he'd agree with everything I've written. To argue otherwise is simply factually inaccurate (Unless your point was that the addition of Raymond Felton was THE key to Melo being willing to go to New York. I am firmly convinced that Felton is an insignificant factor in Melo's decision. But if you are taking THAT specific view, I will respect that.) I'll end my argument with you on this subject now. If I cannot convince you with facts, then it's probably not worth my time to post any further on this discussion with you. But, again, sorry for the harsh tone of the last post.
No...I guess you arent paying attention to the past. He traded a broken down T mac....whose only value was a salry dump. Your lucky if you get ONLY a 1st round pick. Find me one other pure salary dump that got more. We traded Carl Landry and Tracy Mcgrady for Kevin Martin, Landrys replacement and a top in 10 lottery pick in jordan hill, jefferies (who will be a decent trade asset, gained 1st round pick in 2012 and if new york failed completely in 2011 which was possible...the right to swap picks. We also effectively hindered the knicks from accuiring melo. Say we traded with kings instead.... New York still has the money to sign felton and amare.... Then they are able to offer Randloph, hill 2012 pick 2014 pick ... and whatever else they are offering...and BAM Knicks get melo. We are only able to even TRY and get melo...because morey made this move. People who know all the details of this deal praise morey. Thats why......
I'll repeat what I wrote in another thread. Melo is going to New Jersery! Denver is just waiting till the trade deadline because they are going to get NJ 2011 unprotected first round pick. Right now NJ has the 4th worst record in the league. Giving them Carmelo now will improve their record significantly and weaken the value of that draft pick. The NJ offer will be there for DEN at the deadline, no need to trade Melo now.
Thats actually a good point...and likely the case. Oh well...maybe the screw themselves over and NJ goes for Granger lol
Hahaha. The hair on your bum must be at least somewhat valuable, then, right? Remember, the trade cannot simply be split in half and viewed separately. The Rockets did very well for themselves even without the pick swap actually happening. Sure, it was no Gasol trade (I didn't see any comparisons to a KG trade, which is the type of deal the Rockets are hoping to make now), but it was a very good trade on several fronts. (1) The Rockets got the best player in the deal (Martin); (2) They got a young prospect (seemingly) with the highest ceiling in the deal (Hill); (3) They got future draft picks (2011 pick swap, 2012 pick); AND (4) They used the trade to get under the luxury tax! While the picks now look far less valuable than at the time of the deal, and while I've never been enamored with Hill personally, the fact that the Rockets won on all four fronts above made this trade a master stroke by Morey as a GM. Winning on all four of those fronts basically NEVER happens in the NBA. It just doesn't. Again, I've never argued that this trade was the caliber of violation that the Lakers committed against the Grizzlies to get Gasol. But from a GM'ing standpoint, it was very, very impressive. Look, stuff happens. Somethings things don't play out the way you thought. But at the time, the deal was clearly a major win for the Rockets. Also, don't assume that Amare's knee is going to hold out for the next season and a half. That thing's a ticking timebomb. While it's looking like that pick swap is completely worthless, it's not out of the question (yet) that the Rockets could get a better record than the Knicks if Amare goes down with a knee injury. I'm not holding my breath for that to happen, but the fact that it is even a remote possibility means that the pick swap does have SOME value, however small.
I'm pretty sure that New Jersey will have some limited level of protection on that pick. My guess is that it's at least top-3 protected. New Jersey is not going to give up a pick in the top 3 when they have enough other picks to entice Denver to make a deal anyway. Also, having all of those extra picks (from LAL, HOU and GSW) allows them more flexibility to push their 2011 pick obligation to future years if the pick falls within the protected range. But I still agree with your point that Denver has more to gain with that 2011 NJ pick the longer this drags on and the longer New Jersey continues to lose games. Still, I'm not so sure the distraction of the past week or two is making the waiting approach worth it.
