the iso mania your talking about gave us 90+ pts as an average. This is its a miracle if they break 90...
No JVG, you did say that. That makes sense. A coach living in the past, hoping to correct his fiasco at the end of his Knicks tenure. A little Hitler that wants to dwell on the negative to make himself the more intelligent and superior person in his "us vs. them" and "I told them so mentality". A real historic figure, coaching modern players umder modern rules with antiquated tactics that don't even work in the east conference in which they did 15 years ago. This team is about to have a major implosion. Teaching by negativity and talking down to people is a method best left to the military, an organization that has you captive and vastly underpaid. Neither applies to this situation and is opposite of what millionaire 20 somethings in the NBA will respond to. We might as well have hired Bob Knight!
We know WHAT DOESN'T WORK: Rudyball giving the inmates free reign. It got us nowhere for 4 years, and the Rox having been nothing more than a league curiosity. Lots of style, but no substance. What IS NEEDED now is a strong disciplinarian - and that's JVG. It will take some time, and both players and coach must adjust. Change takes time. At least JVG is facing the problem head on, and like most change agents, he knows that incremental change will be rejected. That's the reason for his "all out assault"...even in a public forum. D R
That may be what some would say is needed. I say it won't work in this situation. This situation will end up in a train wreck. I can't see SF, CAT, MoT, EG, and even Cato putting up with this style of negative reinforcment very long. Too many egos, too much money, too much limelight. All JVG did was try to repeat history by returning to trhe scene of his second biggest failure with his posse of assistant failures and begin instituting the same flawed system in the hopes of vindicating his getting run out of NYC. It is not going to work. I'm not disagreeing with you per se, what I am saying is this won't work for either side and the honeymoon is over. This about to get real ugly, there appears to be a major blowup on the horizon....
If there is to be a major shakeup, you can bet that JVG will be on the winning end of it. A shakeup now would probably see 2 or 3 Rox in different unis in favor of players who are willing to work within the system. If I were JVG and SF was actively resisting me, I would trade him and use the trade exception to let the rest of the team know that I can trade them for someone better if they don't work the system the way he wants it. If you have watched the games, you will have seen that when the Rox play within the system and pass the ball, they play well offensively and the shots go in. When we try to dribble our way into a shot or when we try to go back to the isos of old, we fall flat. I totally disagree with you about JVG having an antiquated system. Just because he ran the system in NY, it was less than 5 years ago that he brought an 8th seed to the NBA Finals with that same system. If JVGs system is antiquated, then Phil Jackson's must be ancient, seeing as how he used it in the early '90s.
I do not disagree that JVG would be the last man standing. You will probably be able to watch JVG's new group of yes players grunt and defend themselves into mediocrity - back to the future! Or maybe forward to the past! Led by that great historian - JVG! Against who? In what conference. This ain't your father's olds and it ain't parked at the grocery store....
Interestingly, the same "iso mania" is still the crux of our current issues. Shallow people will not understand why this is so but I guarrantee you that the iso mania is the "root of this evil" we have been subjected to watch this season again. It is all about bad habits and the inability to get over or overcome them. It is a mentality thing - that makes it difficult to do the "right and simple things" because your dumb head (the player) tells you otherwise. This team need total cleansing from inside out i.e. mentally and then otherwise. This IMO can only or mostly likely be achieved via personel change starting with getting a true point guard/playmaker. Basketball is not supposed to be this difficult!
Lets see what kind of team did JVG have in New York... Good defense Dominant post player Perimiter shooting That sounds like a recipe for success to me. Worked for the Knicks then Worked for the Rockets in 94-95 Worked for the Spurs last season I think you will have a very hard time coming up with a team that didn't work within the coaches system and played "modern basketball" that has won a championship. This "old school" b-ball and "antiquated tactics" wins championships. All that other crap wins is a video game cover and Steve has one of those. Are you satisfied? I'm not.
Van Gundy said. "... if you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it,..." FYI, up to the 98-99 season, The East was at least as strong as the West, or even stronger. The power base only started to shift in 2000 ... From Patricia's web site: Division Records 95-96 ----------- W-L - HW HL RW RL -- Mid -- Pac -- Atl -- Cen Midwest 264-310 161 126 103 184 84-84 86-110 43-55 51-61 Pacific 306-268 187 100 119 168 110-86 84-84 62-35 50-63 Atlantic 269-305 163 124 106 181 55-43 36-62 85-85 93-115 Central 350-306 208 120 142 186 61-51 62-50 115-93 112-112 Division Records 96-97 ----------- W-L - HW HL RW RL -- Mid -- Pac -- Atl -- Cen Midwest 240-334 139 148 101 186 84-84 75-121 48-50 33-79 Pacific 302-272 177 110 125 162 121-75 84-84 51-47 46-66 Atlantic 270-304 149 138 121 166 50-48 47-51 85-85 88-120 Central 377-279 219 109 158 170 79-33 66-46 120-88 112-112 Division Records 97-98 ----------- W-L - HW HL RW RL -- Mid -- Pac -- Atl -- Cen Midwest 254-320 153 134 101 186 84-84 82-114 41-57 47-65 Pacific 287-287 168 119 119 168 114-82 84-84 41-57 48-64 Atlantic 291-283 175 112 116 171 57-41 57-41 85-85 92-116 Central 357-299 212 116 145 183 65-47 64-48 116-92 112-112 Division Records 98-99 ----------- W-L - HW HL RW RL -- Mid -- Pac -- Atl -- Cen Midwest 171-179 114 61 57 118 71-71 81-85 9-10 10-13 Pacific 175-175 107 68 68 107 85-81 71-71 12-9 7-14 Atlantic 174-176 110 65 64 111 10-9 9-12 67-67 88-88 Central 205-195 121 79 84 116 13-10 14-7 88-88 90-90 Division Records 99-00 ----------- W-L - HW HL RW RL -- Mid -- Pac -- Atl -- Cen Midwest 289-285 169 118 120 167 84-84 99-97 44-54 62-50 Pacific 302-272 174 113 128 159 97-99 84-84 58-40 63-49 Atlantic 287-287 186 101 101 186 54-44 40-58 85-85 108-100 Central 311-345 197 131 114 214 50-62 49-63 100-108 112-112
Nothing new here, I have been saying this for the entire time that Steve Francis has been running the show. If the leader buys off and starts passing, it will trickle down, but until that day........ DD
Chicago's dominant post player? 5 year old stats? What does that mean NOW? Raging, those stats are meaningless. What exactly do overall records in 5 year old stat sheets tell you about the Rox and JVG NOW? What does it prove? Against who? East vs. West? What's the point? That JVG inherited a Riley built team and then ran it down over a few years? Regardless, the point I was making had more to do with this coach coming in and creating a friction that is no longer just smoldering. This thing is about to implode. Problems with personnel and who is in charge have escalated to an "us vs. them" internal friction that I think will end up in this team imploding and tanking unless it is addressed real quick. All that trade stuff will probably happen soon if this continues. We will all get a chance to enjoy the rebirth of the JVG inherited old school Knicks - YUCK!
In addition to your reasons... It sends a clear statement that, so far, the players have knowingly NOT been doing what the coach has asked because they don't have faith in his decisions. I don't think we've seen Gundyball yet. I think we've seen something close. But I can tell ya this - Jeff will get rid of anybody who will undermine his decisions. He wants players who will listen, work hard, are coachable, have faith in each other and in their coach, and who are hungry for championships. If a player doesn't have ALL of those characteristics, he'd better learn 'em or pack his bags. -- droxford
The problem with Van Gundy is possibly the same problem that Rudy T suffered through. He went into a situation in New York city that had him inheriting a group of veterans after Riley left. He didn't have to teach fundamentals. He just had to draw up the Xs and Os. The players would execute the plan. This is one of the reasons why Larry Brown probably did not want to go to Houston. He got tired of teaching. He wanted to coach and not teach. Teaching Allen Iverson almost sent him to the crazy house. He trashed the Sixers players after he left. Who's the best teacher in this league? I know of Jerry Sloan and Hubie Brown. Rick Pitino was an excellent teacher, but he recruited players who were defiant in following his words. I remember when he told his players that he was going to quit if they weren't going to play defense. Can you imagine Jerry Sloan saying this? Sloan is the master of the house. It's too bad he's not here. This is a reason why I'd like to see a shakeup to get guys in here that can execute Van Gundy's plan well. Then we can blame the coach if it doesn't work. Can we actually blame the coach now? I don't think so. Stevie and friends aren't even going with the plan. He even admitted it.
I believe the 2004 draft pick given to the Jazz is a conditional draft pick. It's lottery protected for up to 3 seasons. I might be wrong, but I think that's it.
Brown went to Detroit right away when his close friend dumars asked him to. It wasn't a teaching decision here...
I think Larry Brown is tired of teaching players. This guy Darko is a work in progress. He's gotten hardly any playing time even though he was drafted #2. I think Larry Brown doesn't want to teach anymore. He wants a ring.
