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[Chron] Rockets’ glee is McGrady’s misfortune

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Artesticles, May 2, 2009.

  1. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    again, as we watch more and more series, it's TEAMS that win games. great players can only do so much.

    - boston wouldn't have won the game without eddie house stepping up for 15pts.
    - orlando clinched its series without its best player in blowout fashion
    - parker + duncan dominated statistically in their series, but lost to a better TEAM
    and it goes on and on.

    if tracy and the rockets somehow find a way to resolve their problems next year, the team will also advance out of the first round. but it's not going to be due to tracy mcgrady doing superhuman work, it's b/c he's surrounded by great teammates who produce.
     
  2. SageHare6

    SageHare6 Member

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    Moreover, getting back to 90%, let alone 100% is not a certainty with this sort of surgery. i.e., even AFTER the rehab, players will often still look and play gimpy off a gimpy knee. Worse still, one knee problem can lead to another knee problem.

    Just look at Antonio McDyess as an example.

    I really felt for him after he went down with his knee injury. When he was young he was incredible. Then post-surgery, it was so apparent that first year back, that he lost some of that explosiveness - be it laterally, vertically, sprinting, you name it. Clearly, surgery is no laughing matter. And even if T-Mac does return to health, it's not clear that he will return to prime or even semi-prime form soon.

    On an optimistic, I did have occasion to watch Antonio McDyess in recent seasons as a Piston, and he looks much much better. Still a shell of his old self, but looking much better, say 80% of what he used to be.

    Is that enough given the hefty expectations on T-Mac? I doubt it.
    MOreover, it took McDyess nearly 3 years to get back up to 80%, even at 99%, would we seriously wait 3 years to see/chance it that T-Mac makes it? I doubt it.

    Another team might take the gamble. A different sort of gamble, than say, what we did with Artest (which wasn't much of a gamble imho.) This is a health gamble, and imho, it's not worth the gamble in this case. NOthing personal against T-mac, the person, but I have huge doubts about T-Mac the player getting back to speed in short time.

    I am not a doctor, but for his sake, and the longevitiy of his career, I would recommend.
    1. He thin down (to relieve strain on the knee)
    2. Rehab LONGER and let the Rox know in advance that he is OUT (and not be wishy washy about it or rush it for both the team's sake and his)
    3 If traded, go to a team with reset expectations of what he can and will do.

    Don't even get me started on the "psychological" element of T-Mac. Can you imagine, at less than 90% athleticism, how his psyche will hold out? The mental component, imho would be shot. Granted this much is pure speculation on my part, but just look/think back to the soundbytes up through his declaration of needing surgery.

    Ultimately, the ROX are and will continue to be better off without T-Mac. What will be most interesting, is what will become of T-Mac insofar as what the Rox will be willing to entertain and trade-for among available options. imho, it would be stupid for the Rox to be picking up some 3+ odd average players for one T-Mac. It might make more sense for the Rox to go younger, maybe get a higher 1st round pick from a garbage team in rebuilding mode.

    My three cents.

    theSAGE
     
  3. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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    You have to take into consideration the FG % (efficiency) + when a guy (superstar) turns it on (effectiveness). PER is not the whole story....far from it.
     
  4. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    yes, it also involves a TEAM. do you think melo really "turned it on?" in the hornets series? or does he just have a better team?
     
  5. JeopardE

    JeopardE Member

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    His TS% in the playoffs is slightly lower than the regular season (51.7% vs 52.1%), but that isn't even a significant difference, given how many more minutes he has played and how much his teammates' production always dropped during the playoffs.
     
  6. echu888

    echu888 Member

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    Just wondering, do you have a theory as to why that happens? (teammates production dropping off in the playoffs)
     
  7. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    those guys were just decent players who are ONE-DIMENSIONAL.
    1) there's a reason rafer shares minutes with a rookie in orlando and is playing about 9-10 minutes less in the playoffs with orlando than with us.
    2) luther head is simply a shooter who was forced to play PG. no shot -> useless
    3) bobby jackson - old
    4) chuck hayes - can't score
    5) wesley/sura - old
    6) ryan bowen - a chuck hayes hustler with less D
    ...

    1) now we replace that PG with a 2-headed monster in brooks/lowry who can create their own shots
    2) now we have a SG off the bench who can get his points without anyone's help in wafer
    3) now we have a 2-headed PF tandem that can make midrange Js

    need i go on?

    like i said, 2 things stopped the tmac-yao era:
    1) injuries
    2) morey came WAY too late--had morey been the GM 1-2 years before tracy came, it would have been a beautiful thing.
     
  8. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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    Screw Melo, who said he's a superstar, McGrady was way better than this guy. Look its your superstar that carries the team, our teams have been good enough to win in the playoffs, the games were always close (it tells you a lot), as I said, if our teams were horrible most of the games would be blow outs (they were not). There are just some players that rise above everyone else to take their team to victory, its what seperates two teams that are about as good as each other.
     
  9. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    the games were close b/c of tracy and yao. are you saying top to bottom our past few teams are just as talented as utah and dallas? :rolleyes:

    there's a reason the spurs (with just 2 stars) lost badly to the mavericks. are you even serious with your assessment?

    the games this series v. portland were close for the most part, which superstar stepped up? NO, DIFFERENT PLAYERS STEPPED UP.
     
  10. JeopardE

    JeopardE Member

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    A lot of it was just really bad matchups, especially in the two Utah series. There was also, as much as he is vilified for pointing it out, talent deficits that were exposed/magnified by those matchups.

    - Yao Ming struggling with the much more athletic Boozer and typically untimely foul trouble against Utah's bigs;
    - Rafer Alston being, well, Rafer Alston
    - Luther Head being completely unable to get anything going (I think he actually had a negative PER in the 2008 playoffs)
    - Juwan Howard being, well, Juwan Howard
    - In the 2005 series against the Mavericks, the starting power forward was Ryan Bowen, and David Wesley was a key weapon off the bench, and we still have those cursed memories of the ensuing game 7.

    It just so happened that those matchups tended to expose the worst deficiencies of the team, and they ended up coming up short repeatedly as a result.
     
  11. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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    Where are you getting these stats from??? .....The team didn't do as bad as you make it out to be.... our stars didn't pick it up when the team was cold....its what they should do.
     
  12. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    - von wafer and kyle lowry picked us up in that 2nd quarter when the game was tight and yao and artest weren't in the game :rolleyes: . you can argue von/lowry were game-changers in the series whenever they entered the game in terms of pace/momentum

    and that's why a dwayne wade said to his teammate: FREAKIN' PLAY BETTER, YOU ALL HAVE SUCKED (or in words like that ;) )
     
  13. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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    Tracy and Yao did not take all the shots......its a TEAM game, you forgot?
    Were we not up 3-1 on Dallas? That's NOT a bad team!!!? Screw that!! Any team with guys like T-Mac and Yao Ming SHOULD win.... at least a playoff round....also when did Utah become a dynasty, geez, they just got killed by L.A, and I BET our CURRENT team will give more trouble to L.A than Utah!!!!
     
  14. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    matchups matchups matchups. why do you think the lakers would prefer to play us rather than portland? and why do you think we prefer to play the blazers rather than utah? just b/c the lakers could whup utah don't mean we could whup utah. :rolleyes:

    and yes it's a team game. and over a 7 game series, the better team wins. even a kobe bryant led-team blew a 3-1 series lead and kobe is the best closer in the game.

    you can't expect the ryan bowens, luther heads, alstons, hayes, howards... to play over a 7 game series.

    v. portland, we had SEVEN guys who were legit scorers and create their own shot (except for shane). how many do we have the past few years? just tmac and yao.
     
  15. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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    I agree with the matchup issues with Utah....... we're just going to have to agree to disagree on T-Mac's inability to win in the playoffs. I hope T-Mac plays again in the NBA.
     
  16. ThaBlackKnight

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    I remember since 2006 (when Rafer started playing with us) that the Rockets would run Tmac off a couple of screens in the midrange area to relieve some pressure, and he would be money from the free throw line area coming off a curl. If defenders tried to cheat, we could always lob it to Tmac, and if the went over the top of the picks, they would never be able to contest his shots, and he was great at drawing fouls on the jumpshot.

    I also think Tmac could be a better point guard than Aaron Brooks in the half court. AB is a great scorer, but he's not a natural point guard and his shooting/scoring is nowhere near good enough to make up for his lack of size and bball IQ. I think Lowery will be the starter next year, but if it is Brooks, then Tmac's bball IQ, passing and ball handling skills will definitely benefit the Rockets.

    Ron Artest can be dreadful with the ball against a decent defender. I think Artest should be used in the post or iso'd in certain favorable matchups (smaller guards). Otherwise, he should be SET to shoot open 3's like Battier does. When he tries to do more than he should, he makes turnovers or bad decisions.

    Tmac and Yao are by far the most talented offensive players on our team. Tmac is much more difficult to contain, because if you double him, he can see over the defense and make great passes, if you play him too close, he goes by you, if you back off he can hit a pull up 3 or jumper on you. Yao draws more attention (fronting, zoning), but unfortunately he can be taken out of a game, if teams really wanted to make the other Rockets beat them.

    Its not as if Artest is Ben Gordon, who only looks to score and not play defense or pass the ball. Artest can still be allowed to take on the other team's best scorer. He just won't have the pressure to lead a team in scoring and making plays every night, which will benefit him greatly.

    When you have 3 good offensive weapons who usually have a matchup in their favor (Yao ALWAYS does), then you don't need to move the ball as much to be honest. It will happen anyways because of double teams, but Tmac and Yao are so good on their own, that they can score at will for stretches, and teams will react to that, which will then lead to ball movement, and most importantly wins.

    Yao will still draw double teams, Tmac will still be able to penetrate, and Ron will still be a matchup nightmare for smaller guards (because Tmac will draw the better defender EVERY time) because EVERY coach in the NBA knows how great a talent Tmac is. Same goes for Yao. That will free up the rest of the guys.

    We can start Lowery at the point to set the tone defensively and take care of the ball and make smart decisions with the ball and have a point guard who can finish at the basket. I really think Brooks will be a great bench player. If all you ask him to do is score, I think he'll do pretty good in this league. But at his size, its a lot to ask him (in this day and age of bigger point guards) to run a team and to provide offense. However, with Tmac, neither one of them will be asked to create as much as they have to right now.

    Scola will still get his production in. I think with Tmac in the lineup, he can focus on finishing plays around the basket, rebounding, running the pick n' roll with Tmac, and benefit off of the double teams Yao will get. The same can be said for Landry.

    Now imagine this...(IF we keep the majority of this team) we'll have a bench of AB, Wafer, Battier, Landry, Hayes, and hopefully a taller back-up center. Tmac won't have to play as many minutes during the season with 2 proven wing players on the bench and Ron Artest can get a break on defense whenever Battier comes in.

    I'd rather have a problem of having too much talent, because at the end of the day, we need a guy who we can be confident in having the ball in his hands at the end of the game. If teams didn't front/zone Yao so much, then he would be my first option, but he's too good, therefore teams won't allow him to beat them. Artest is not that gifted with the ball in his hands vs. good defenders and he is a bad decision maker with the ball late in games. Tmac, although he has his faults, can get to the basket, can finish above the rim if needed, can hit a pull jumper or a 3, can draw a foul, can draw a double team, and can pass very effectively.

    I say, we are MUCH better with Tmac on this team. Even if its not Tmac, we need a player of very similar talent on this team. The series vs. LA will expose the Rockets in a close game...unfortunately.
     
  17. MrButtocks

    MrButtocks Member

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    I don't get how so many people were fascinated with Francis' comeback last year, but deride Tmac for being injury prone and a ballhog. People came up with all kinds of excuses for Steve coming into camp out of shape two years ago. Yet, Tmac is supposed to be an iron man coming off the same type of injury.
     
  18. mdrowe00

    mdrowe00 Member

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    Wow.
    Again.

    Why are you on Tracy McGrady's side here, citizen?
    You DID get the memo that the Rockets have moved on and don't need him anymore, didn't you?

    I can't take anything away from your post. Except that it's great. Really.

    I like the Rockets in this series. Not to win it, unfortunately, but because of precisely what you've said.

    I think the Rockets have finally cleared this hurdle of HOW you win games at this time of the year.

    You do that by contributions ON BOTH ENDS OF THE COURT, FROM EVERYBODY WHO PLAYS.

    Numbers fool people. Stats don't tell the whole story. Guts and toughness alone aren't enough. Intangibles get smaller and smaller if you try to substitute them for scoring or smarts.

    The better players you have, and the more specific their roles become, the better your chances of winning are.

    What a novel thought. Why didn't somebody think of this before...?
     
  19. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Well, Francis was getting paid $2mm. If he was productive, then thats a great bargain. If not, its only $2mm.

    McGrady was getting paid $20mm.

    You simply cannot hold them to the same standards.
     
  20. Artesticles

    Artesticles Member

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    Funny that DaDakota has yet to respond to this.
     

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