Great thread so far. I think most of the points have been covered in terms of pros & cons of who McGrady is and what he brings to the table. I wanted to see what some numbers say. I propose that although he is talented, he is still content to settle for perimeter shots (the long contested 2, the worst shot in basketball). In order to evaluate that, I look at the 2007-2008 shot selection chart for McGrady : I see that by far, his highest percentage of shots is the long-2 with 531 attempts. Add on to that 289 3-point attempts, puts you at 820 jump shots vs. 483 around the hoop. How does that compare to a comparable player? Let's pick Brandon Roy for fun ... For this season, Roy shot 760 around the hoop, and took 532 jump shots. That's just about inverted to McGrady's numbers. As you can imagine, this also means Roy gets to the line far more than McGrady. Looking it up, Roy went to the stripe 505 times, McGrady (last year) 358 times. This is closer than I expected, but I remember McGrady's uncanny knack for causing defenders to foul him while shooting the long ball. That helps him out quite a bit. From a team standpoint .. I propose that McGrady is a volume scorer who hurts the team's overall offensive efficiency. Let's look at the 2007-2008 Rockets: Team FG%: .448 Opp FG%: .433 Team 3P%: .342 T-Mac's FG%: .419 T-Mac's 3P%: .292 T-Mac's 3PA: 295 (third most on the team) T-Mac's FGA: 1307 (most on the team) Yao's FGA: 852 (second most on the team) Let's look at the 2008-2009 Rockets: Team FG%: .453 Opp FG%: .444 Team 3P%: .375 Yao's FG%: .548 Yao's FGA: 1032 (most on the team) Ron's FGA: 1037 (second most on the team) Ron's FG%: .401 Ron's 3P%: .399 Ron's 3PA: 383 So, keeping in mind that another huge difference is trading away Alston, our most voluminous 3-point shooter (still quite astounding), we see that between last year and this year, there has been a net positive on our team FG% as well as the 3P%. Interestingly, opposing team's FG% has also gone up. I'm not sure how to account for that, particularly with the generally accepted belief that Artest is a lockdown defender, and McGrady plays defense part of the time. But I think that the starting 5 last year did have very good defensive chemistry (including TMac and Alston). Interesting from those numbers that indeed, McGrady took far more shots than anyone else on the squad (granted Yao was injured partially). And, McGrady's FG% and 3P% are very hard to respect. When you have the guy with a pretty poor shooting percentage taking the most shots on your team, no wonder it will be frustrating. Last year, McGrady took 19.8 FGA per game, and Yao 15.5 FGA. This year, Yao took 13.4 FGA and Artest took 15.0 FGA. I can't find the figure for average FGA per game for the Rockets, but assuming they are on par between the two years this basically means that the shots were a bit more evenly distributed among the players of the team. This is a sign that people are moving, and the ball is moving. I generally like that approach, although I think the NBA loves having guys like LeBron, Wade, and Kobe shoot 30 times a game. I think with McGrady, although an exciting player to watch, people tend to stand around and wait for him to do something. That is not necessarily McGrady's fault, but it is an artifact of playing with him, and its hard to separate that from him. What I'm saying is that even if he isn't the cause, there is a correlation present, and the end effect is a more stagnant offense. Thanks.
Attitude OFF the court.....as i stated, he's a good TEAM player. Playoffs....if he didn't wilt under pressure he would have made it past the first round....some way some how.
If ron can survive with AB, then he can survive with Tmac. Ron/Tmac both are great talents to know how to adjust.
I also find it amusing how T-Mac consistently produces better in the playoffs, his teammates consistently fail to produce, and he's the one who wilts under pressure. Real nice logic. Did Brandon Roy also "wilt under pressure" this year? He did complain about being "tired". Every ounce of logic is always different when it comes to McGrady.
Who Exactly does he make better? What exactly does that mean? The most I can get from him 'making someone better' is at most drawing a double team. Let's see what the major Differences Between Ron and Tmac <TABLE BORDER CELLPADDING=3> <COL> <COL ALIGN=RIGHT> <COL STYLE="color:red"> <TR> <TH>Category</TH> <TH>TMAC</TH> <TH>ARTEST</TH> </TR> <TR> <TD>Overall Rebounding</TD> <TD>6.1</TD> <TD>5.1</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD>Offensive Rebounding </TD> <TD>1.5</TD> <TD>1.2</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD>Defensive Rebounding </TD> <TD>4.6</TD> <TD>3.9</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD>AssistsPG</TD> <TD>4.7</TD> <TD>3.3</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD>StealsPG</TD> <TD>1.3</TD> <TD>2.1</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD>BlockPG </TD> <TD>.9</TD> <TD>.6</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD>TurnOvers</TD> <TD>2.33</TD> <TD>2.27</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD>FG%</TD> <TD>.436</TD> <TD>.422</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD>3p%</TD> <TD>.339</TD> <TD>.342</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD>FGA-M</TD> <TD>6,290-14,433</TD> <TD>3,454-8,193</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD>3pA-M</TD> <TD>1,020-3,013</TD> <TD>717-2,096</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD>3pA-M</TD> <TD>3,689-4,927</TD> <TD>2,097-2,901</TD> </TR> </TABLE> Tmac has played in 784 Games - Started 640 Artest has played in 604 games - started 562 Rocket River
Define "wilt." He has consistently performed better in the playoffs and has always stepped it up. I will agree that he tends to play lackadaisical during much of the regular season, but anyone who has followed his career knows that he plays with determination and fire (gasp!). I will however, blame partly, for the last two playoff series because he couldn't get us get a higher playoff seed so we didn't have to play the damn Jazz twice Off the court though, is where I will say he has cost us a lot by saying unnecessary statements to one Stephen freakin A. Smith. By doing that he put so much pressure on himself and his team, much more than he could already handle along with the playoff stigma placed on him.
Its funny how guys are really debating about McGrady. I mean whats the point of talkin about him. The man was hurt was playing on one leg. What else would you expect out of him. McGrady is no Willis Reed. McGrady is a cancer, he doesn't fit, he needs to go. Guys give it a rest. I'm sure all of the people that's bashing McGrady are probably the same people that was on his nuts when he did great things for the Rockets. As for the guys that are supporting him. Yall need to give up to. Its no point in arguing over and over in what you already know is true. I would like anyone to name any player in the NBA who is going to have a great season with one leg. Matter fact who is going to play great while being injured. McGrady is hurt not playing. He is rehabbing. Can there be one day without his name being mentioned. Round 2 starts Monday but everyone is focused on T-Mac. Hahaha i guess the haters really like him.
he made a name for chuck hayes. chuck gets ALL of his points from basically tracy. notice how when chuck is in the game nowadays, he doesn't even get the ball.
Those are career numbers but McGrady has turned into a really good passer and with this team, he can easily average around 7-8 assists a game.
apparently melo doesn't wilt under pressure people need to know you need your teammates to step up also in the playoffs if you want to advance, like the others did for yao this series.
TMac is currently a member of the Houston Rockets, therefore he has finally gotten past the first round. Not the way he wanted to I'm sure, and many people will disagree that he made it, or they will put an asterik next to his name (maybe that's fair), but I think it's just because it's become "cool" to be a TMac basher. Give it a rest already!
There is plus and minus when Tmac is on the team and i think without Tmac the plus is greater than with Tmac and here's why: With Tmac: Negative: The team DOES NOT flow better!! Yao doesn't shine as much!! Scola doesn't shine as much!! Artest doesn't shine as much!! Team stagnant in offense!! Team defense is horrible without Battier and Artest starting!! Bulk of shots go to Tmac who is very inconsistent!! Positive: When team denied Yao, Tmac gets the green light!! Without Tmac: Negative: Team can be forcing shot if Yao is denied or fronted. Positive: Team offense flow better! Yao gets more touch and shine!! Scola gets more touch and shine!! Brooks and Lowry and Wafer shine!! Artest shine! Team defense is exceptionally good!! As you can see, this team is better off without Tmac because the positive outweigh the negative. But, BUT i will say this, we do need Tmac's offense when Yao is denied or being fronted. At the same time, I WANT Battier and Artest in the starting lineup, so how do you make this work?? The ONLY way to make this work is to have Tmac starting as PG or come off the bench (which he won't do). But my priority is to have Battier and Artest starting, they're very lethal on the perimeter. I don't like Tmac's defense...he's very weak and get Yao into foul trouble because he's too slow and let people penetrate. Tmac just don't play D...anyone say otherwise is a fool. The reason Houston has been great on D is because of Yao's presence inside. BUT Tmac has horrible footwork to play D.
I find it funny how Tmac supporters fail to see that he does NOT produce more in the playoffs, he just plays more minutes and shoots more shots...and actually shoots a LOWER percentage. DD
Look he may have turned it up (PtsPerGame) when the playoffs came around, but he wasn't good enough, superstars carry their teams on their shoulders and make them win, his career playoff FG % is about .430.....not good enough... Dwayne Wade's FG % is 0.476, just for example. Also when things did get tough for his team, he didn't turn it on, rather he went cold as well, our team never got smoked each and every game, it was close the majority of the time. He just didn't do enough..... BTW...Roy didn't wilt, his FG % was 0.459 which is about as good as T-Mac's best series playoff %, he carried his team, he did everything he could have, he kept his team in it, you take that away and it would have been a blow out each and every game.....he had a bad game 6, but hell this is his FIRST playoff, give him a break, why compare him to T-mac??....he's shown he'll be even better the next time around. PLUS our teams have been better than this Portland team each and every time we've been in the playoffs. jasonemilio....you say he stepped it up in the playoffs..... but he never did enough to get us over the hump...sorry but that's what superstars do...I say he wilted because he has the ability to carry a team, he had the talent to take over games, but he just couldn't step up his game enough to make it happen.
roy didn't rebound, playmake, create, nor defend (tmac has at least been a good defender in the playoffs in the past). so no.
Tracy McGrady's career regular season PER (box score production on a per-minute basis, just as a reminder) is 23.1. His career playoff PER is 24.7. In the 2007-08 season, his regular season PER was 18.4. His playoff PER was 24.4. Yes, he produces more in the playoffs.
It's VERY silly to compare him to Roy.....you pick on a guy with 6 playoff games under his belt, who hasn't even reached superstar status ......pick someone who's got a few years of playoff experience in him....a superstar!!!
his fg% def. does need work. but hell, if tracy just learned how to make his fts last yr, he would def. been way more efficient. but it's not like he's WAY inefficient. he is still an offensive producer in the playoffs. the thing that makes tracy "better" in the playoffs is that EVERY thing goes up with him, not just his points: rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, and yes MINUTES. but how come roy's "other" stats didn't go up since he also played more minutes? what about dwade's? what about kobe's? it's easy for DD to say. hey, he plays more minutes, so obviously his stats should go up. if only it was "that" easy in the playoffs. more minutes -> better stats. if it was that simple, kobe must average like 50 pts per game a few years ago in the playoffs
tracy's first year playoffs as the main man in orlando: 33.8ppg, 6.5rpg, 8.3apg, 1.5spg, 1bpg, again fg% remains his weakness at 42%. like i said, i was referring to DD's argument of more minutes -> better stats. that's absurd.
