Haslem is not a worse defender than Chuck Hayes. I don't even think Hayes is an average defender. He is good at drawing charges but has no shot to contain PF's without help. he is too little. How many games have you actually seen Haslem play? He isn't the worlds greatest defender but he has good length and nice quickness. He isn't going to shut down anyone but he makes them work for their points. Again, Hayes is 6'6......
Oh my, you're a contributing member, you must be right. Yes, a perimeter game would be nice from the 4 and that's why we got Scola. Haslem isn't even that great on the perimeter, he shoots .399 from jumpers. HASLEM SUCKS. WE DON'T NEED HIM.
Not much to be honestly, i only saw his 2006 and 2007 playoff games.. Haslem's performance against the Chicago is very disppointing IMO. And Chicago was no where near the Spurs, Phoenix, Maverick's lvl..
Everyone on Mia sucks in last playoff season. So it's probably more because of low overall team morale than anything, they knew they had no shots without Wade fully healthy.
Don't get me wrong though, I would like to obtain Haslem if he just cost us Alston + filters. My only concern though, would he perform well under limited minutes? Especially if we just ask him to cover Yao's back and defense other team's top PF?..
Crash, you devil, Scola IS our prize PF but now we need a sur-prize PF gift from the land of wheeler-dealers.
You made some good points in this thread. Too bad you had to make the last stupid comment (yes Mac-Hater didn't need to get dismissive either). If Haslem sucks, basically the whole Rockets roster after Yao and Tmac sucks. This is what I am saying, Haslem is much of Howard and Hayes rolled into one. Not a great player, not even a very good starter, but a fairly well rounded player who is much better than what the Rockets have had in a starting PF. If Haslem is your 4th or 5th best player on the court, your roll players might be enough to get a ring if your stars play well enough, Miami showed that. Plugging in James at the PG and Haslem at the PF instead of Alston and Hayes/Howard just makes a much more formidable team. A much better offensive/defense combination that the Rockets could do last year, and last year it was offense more than defense or rebounding that held the Rockets down.
I admit, that was out of frustration. However, what you said was simply not true. There are at least six players after our big two that's better than Haslem. Haslem is an average PF at best.
Only half true. Haslem is basically Howard with some rebounding (not great). I am pretty content with having Hayes/Scola split minutes. Haslem is just not what we need.
Haslem eFG% on close shots - .615 Hayes eFG% on close shots - .609 Howard eFG% on close shots - .500 (Okay he sucks there) I am not contending that Haslem is worse than Howard, he is than Hayes. Sure I would've liked to have Haslem instead of Howard last year but that's only because Howard stinks so much.
Haslem can D up...if you don't believe me watch the Finals last year when he locked down Dirk.....Haslem has a nice touch from the outside, can finish strong around the basket, and he could also (which is most important imo) bring some type of winning attitude to this team.....looking at our roster it is full of guys who haven't accomplished much as far as the post season is concerned...outside of Mike James we don't really have any proven "winners" on this ball club......I think Udonis we be a nice pickup especially since we don't know how Scola will pan out.
And Yao was .539 on close shots. There's a negative correlation between a scoring ability and that an "eFG%" on close shots. Guys like Yao, and -- relative to Hayes -- Haslem, are going to shoot a lower percentage simply because they'll be more likely to take tougher shots inside. The vast majority of what Hayes puts up is going to be either wide open created by Yao/TMac or a putback. Most of what Haslem does is of a similar ilk, but he also can score on his own every once in awhile -- again, relative to Hayes. Further, it's convenient you used "close" rather than "inside". Haslem eFG% on inside shots - .647 Hayes eFG% on inside shots - .595 Howard eFG% on inside shots - .528 Yao eFG% on inside shots - .596 I like Chucky, and I'm not convinced we need to upgrade to Haslem at his contract, but he's not as good as Haslem on most measures.
He didn't shut Dirk down. Dirk shut himself down. No one can actually "shut Dirk down" unless it's the play-offs and he chokes away. This is a perfect example of how misconceptions such as "Haslem is a good defender" comes out. They look at a few games from the play-offs and see Dirk missing jumpers that he made all season and Haslem is in front of him and go "LOOK HE'S SHUTTING HIM DOWN!" No one can watch enough games to accurately describe how good of a defender someone is. That's why statistics exist. They allow us to measure players with a reliable sample size. The fact is, the opposing teams scored more on the Heat when Haslem was on the court and the players guarding him scored more over the entire season.
Wouldn't it be better to just let Adelman decide who is better and have them both on the roster. To be honest, I don't see Hayes being involved in a trade for Haslem as Miami require point guards which would mean both Hayes and Haslem would be on the same team and this is only if the Rox resign Hayes. But putting up stats to prove which one the Rox should have is pointless because of the fact that there's a low chance Hayes would even be thought of to be invovled in a trade in the first place. I say get Haslem to give more options at the power forward spot, let Adelman choose who he likes between Scola, Haslem and Hayes and go from there.
Actually I used "Close" because that's exactly what's more representative of what a "contested shot" is like you described. Dunks come from being wide open.
I leave for a few hours and KevC is still trying to use that defensive contributing rating as a source? Check that website again, you need to understand how he calculated it before you throw it into your posts like it's *ahem* facts. Do you even understand what "rebounding rate" is or were you too excited to find a stat where Hayes has a higher number than Haslem? It's also funny that you neglect to mention that Haslem averages 10 minutes more than Hayes and doesn't need to be taken out of the game during crunch time because he contributes on both ends...or did statistics not tell you that? You know why Haslem's eFG% on close shots is just slightly better than Hayes? It's because the guy has range. He has 15ft range. But even then, your statistics says that Haslem is a better finisher than Hayes. You need to watch more games and less stat checking because, like I said before, apparently you would choose Hayes over Tayshaun Prince or Eric Snow over Raja Bell. Hell, Horry has a higher defensive rating, might as well put him on Kobe instead of the "statistically inferior" Bruce Bowen
Wow...RELIABLE SAMPLE SIZE? Your Defensive Bible had Bonzi Wells rated as the best defender we have and if you believe that, then you are readily believing that you would rather have Bonzi Wells on the Lebrons and Kobes of the league rather than Battier?
desert scar's making some good points in this thread. haslem is unquestionably the better player over hayes but i wonder if some of you guys even watched the rockets last years. hayes is a bulldog defender. what he lacks in size he does a decent job in making up for by positioning and leverage. he makes pf's work. haslem is not a better defender than hayes. no way. that said, he's adequate and he brings on offense what chuck can't. his mid-range game is money and he's a capable rebounder. he's basically a better version of juwan which is good enough to start or split time with scola. hayes + rafer for haslem is more than fair for both sides.
Now you're just being unfair and condescending. I know exactly what those stats mean and their shortcomings. Rebounding rate, however, is as close to a perfect stat for rebounding. Rebounding rate is basically an estimate of the % of available rebounds you get. If there are 20 missed shots in one game and player A grabs 10 of those and if there are 10 missed shots in another game and player B grabs 7 of those, player B clearly outrebounded player A. It becomes more accurate with bigger sample size and Chuck played PLENTY of minutes. I'm not saying any of those things you're claiming I'm just comparing Haslem and Hayes based on what we need and Hayes is a clear-cut winner.
