Regardless of what we do, I want to hang on the the 1st round pick(s). Morey's drafting (with whoever is helping him) fascinates me. We would have to be doing a really big deal, bigger than Haslem, to make tossing that in an option. And I'm still wondering what Butler can give us at the 4 spot.
Yeah I agree, Let's not trade any of our picks (esp 1st rounders). If anything, lets trade FOR picks... I'm so sick of the Rockets giving away their picks year after year.
Your stats make perfect sense, but you would put Haslem on guys like Garnett, Boozer, Amare who could all score on Hayes at will. Think about it, do you GENUINELY believe Hayes is a better defender on Garnett than Haslem?
Yes. Absolutely. Think about it. Hayes got those superior defensive stats playing IN THE WESTERN CONFERENCE, meaning he played those guys much more than Haslem. Also, can ANYONE really stop those guys?
It's available on basketball-reference.com. I can do it for KevC. I'll just attach Collison's stat to what KevC has already posted. Hayes - 13.9 PER, .587 TS%, 17.5 rebound rate (very good), 9.6 assist rate, 10.7 usage rate Haslem - 13.7 PER, .523 TS%, 15.5 rebound rate (average), 9.7 assist rate, 15.7 usage rate Collison - 14.2 PER, .546 TS%, 16.8 rebound rate, 8.8 assist rate, 14.7 usage rate Defense: Hayes - 98 Drtg (posession scored by opponent per 100 posessions) Haslem - 105 Drtg Collison - 109 Drtg There's also this new stat called "Defensive Composite Score" that compiles the Drtg, and +/- defensive stats developed from 82games.com that is on a 1-100 scale. Hayes? A whopping 91. Haslem? A 39. THIRTY NINE. Good for 3rd to last on his semi-decent defensive team. Collison - 50
Collison is slightly better 14.2 PER, .546 TS%, 16.8 RbR, 8.8 assist rate, 14.7 usage rate 109 DRtg, 50 DCS
SF3, James, Brooks (only because Adelman likes him), Wells, Snyder, McGrady, Battier, Scola, Butler, Yao and Mutombo are keepers. The remainder are trade bait. Although I'm in the minority on this, I would give up Battier for the right player. However, the 11 players I mentioned give us enormous flexibility for mismatches and substitutions. This is a team that is beginning to look like they could go all the way. So, damn the torpedoes. Use Rafer, Luther, Novak, Hayes, Landry, Sura, Lucas, Newley and / or Battier to get us a prize PF to go along with Scola.
I don't think anyone ever said that Haslem is superior to Hayes in the defense department. It's also nice that you left off any offensive statistics that might--just might--have made Haslem look better than Hayes. Haslem is, like thumbs said, a power foward with offensive skills...almost a clone of Scola. But unlike Scola (who I don't mind starting at all if we don't make any more deals), Haslem has NBA experience. In other words, he doesn't need to get his proverbial feet wet. As for the statistics that you put up, I'd like to bring up how much he contributed during the playoffs. Hayes is a hardworker, no doubt about that, but his ineptitude at the PF position on the offensive side is a liability. I'm even going to give you the benefit of the doubt saying that he "held his own" against Boozer. But I can also say that Haslem can "hold his own" as well as contribute on the offensive side. I don't know about anyone else, but I am not a fan of having a one dimensional player starting for the Rockets. As for your, Defensive Composite Score, did you leave off the fact that this guy rated Bonzi Wells as our best defender (by this stat crunching) by accident? And I especially love the 46 rating he gave Tayshaun Prince, who has always been regarded one of the Pistons best defenders behind the Wallace boys.
All this might very well be true but the Rockets need to move some guards for some bigs. Haslem might be the best we can get for Alston/Head which means we make the deal reguardless of whether you think Hayes is better then Haslem - you let that play itself out in training camp and over the course of the season.
I agree, but who? I'm not sure Haslem is the answer. He might be an improvement over Hayes, but he's no stud 4.
You guys had better get ahold of Morey and make sure he's aware of all this "numbers" stuff. I'd hate for him to overlook anything like that. Kidding...interesting stuff, in any case.
Defensive Composite Score I just wanted to post this again so y'all can actually go to the link and see it for yourself. Some of the funny things include: 1. Robert Horry having a higher score than Bruce Bowen 2. Tyrus Thomas having a 99 rating..which puts him right behind a defender like Duncan 3. Marcus Camby is rated below Reggie Evans I'll give you credit for PER numbers but bringing this flawed stat system (even the author says so) as evidence is pretty shady isn't it?
KevC's stats do look good, but I agree with you that Hayes is too short for Garnett. I also think Haslem is ineffective, also. Midgets just can't guard Garnett. Garnett should a much higher FG% against Miami and Houston, "defensive" teams, than he did against the rest of the league. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3007/splits;_ylt=AnXdcouA3VNjb8Oy1x4A5N2kvLYF Garnett vs all teams 22.4 pts 47.6% 12.8 rebounds Garnett vs Houston 23.3 pts 50.7% FG 12 rebounds Garnett vs Miami 22.5 pts 54.6% FG 15 rebounds
Bonzi Wells is not very indicative because he didn't actually play for us (small sample size) and when he did, yes he played well defensively. DCS is by no means a perfect stat but I prefer it to what people "regard players" as, Tayshuan did have an off-year defensively. As far as the offense goes, it doesn't matter than Hayes can't hit a jumpshot as long as he's in there with Yao. He would be considered a liability on offense if he forced up shots he can't make, but no, he passes it up when he can't and tires to get open under the basket, thus his high TS%. He was quite possibly the best compliment to Yao.
The only upgrade Haslem has over Hayes is the mid-range shot. Both can rebound with the big boys and defend most PFs, but have alot of trouble against the taller guys. If we are looking for a defensive 4, we will need a 6'10" PF/C that can put a body on Garnett, Duncan, and Stoudemire.
