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[CHRON] It's time for Rockets to bust a move

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by macfan, Jul 16, 2005.

  1. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    I have a question that I honestly do not know the answer. Who is the last team that had significant cap space who was able to add a top of the line free agent, then compete for a championship?
     
  2. thegary

    thegary Member

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    spurs
     
  3. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    When and who?
     
  4. LongTimeFan

    LongTimeFan Member

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    The Spur's never added a "top of the line free agent" -- although they had the space to do so. Kidd re-signed with NJ instead of SAS -- I can't remember who they signed with the remaining of their cap space.
     
  5. thegary

    thegary Member

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    they almost signed jason kidd before he decided to stay in NJ for the max
     
  6. thegary

    thegary Member

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    oops, my reading comprehension failed me
     
  7. LongTimeFan

    LongTimeFan Member

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    Well when you sign somebody, the contract doesn't go on forever. We have several players whose contract is ending after this year, hence the $22 million in expiring contracts. It's not hard :confused:

    I don't get where you connect expiring contracts to useless players. You complained about us being weak at the PF spot prior to last year -- how would ANYONE know how Juwon/Taylor tandem would do? I think CD should've consulted your great hindsight. We traded Taylor for garbage with expiring contracts -- We can get more in return with those than we could have with Taylor. I'm really missing where your argument is coming from :confused:

    Most of the time, re-signing a player is the coach's call, NOT GM's. You want to cry about Taylor/Cato, start a thread about Rudy. JVG made the decision to let go of Posey, trade for Deke, Barry, Wesley, and now go after Swift. As Doc said, this ship is being run by JVG -- CD is just following what he wants.
     
  8. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    Rasha was their big free agent addition with all that cap space (snicker, snicker).

    But also they did keep future space or they probably would have lost Manu.

    Their cap space days are over however with TD, Parker, Manu, Rasha, Barry, etc. At least until TD retires that is.
     
  9. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Yeah, they tried to get a bigtime FA in Kidd, couldnt do it; so they then just kinda rolled over their cap space for a few years and then Parker's/Manu's deals came up and they bit the bullet.
     
  10. The Cat

    The Cat Member

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    The days of luring top free agents to your team because of cap space are long gone. The Spurs were/are the best team in the league, and the best they could do was Rasho Nesterovic, who didn't even play during their championship run this year. The Cavs this summer had LeBron, who most people consider the soon-to-be best player in the game, and the best they could do was vastly overpay Larry Hughes. The Hawks don't have a lot going for them, but they do have cap space, and they're going to greatly overpay Joe Johnson by giving him the max.

    Acquiring elite free agents is next to impossible these days with the rules that allow players to get more money with their former teams. It's all about building through the draft and trades and acquiring a few solid MLE-type role players through FA. I know you don't like CD, HillBoy, but complaining about lacking cap space is weak. If we had cap space, we would have to greatly overpay to get any significant talent and then you'd complain about the size of our contracts.
     
  11. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    The Cat has a point. With Free Agency in general you are going to overpay. Players go where the money is in general. A team's best bet to keep their cap in good shape is to draft well as the draft is the best way to get quality talent at low prices.....at least until their rookie deal runs out. ;)
    Unfortuantely for the Rockets, their draft picks havent been too great other than lucking out in getting Yao. But at least we got that one right. :)

    The Rockets at least are in a position where they have their top 2 guys in Tmac and Yao and only have to fill out the roster. It is much more difficult to obtain a top tier guy than a role player.
     
  12. HillBoy

    HillBoy Member

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    Cabbage, There's no confusion here. I have been consistent in my dislike of CD because of his poorly thought out personnel moves, terrible drafts and complete lack of strategic planning. I was not against the T-Mac deal. What I was against was the lack of a comprehensive strategy to address the effects of that trade on this team specifically the problems it created at the guard and forward positions. That trade landed T-Mac sure but it also created serious weaknesses that still exist to this day. This is but one reason why I am not a fan Dawson's tenure as GM. And yes, you are right about my not believing that Dawson is capable of putting together the right pieces around T-Mac & Yao. That's because of his numerous past mistakes that require cleaning up: Eddie Griffin, Nachbar, Mo Taylor, Charlie Ward, etc.. You said it perfectly: the SMART personnel moves only started when JVG showed up. When you look at our team, where are the young players (aside from Yao) we scouted and drafted who are making a contribution today? There are none and to me that's the one fact that continues to separate the Rockets from their peers in the Western Conference.

    What I don't like is the fact that under Dawson, we appear to be stuck in the same place - always cleaning up after his bad personnel decisions. Using your example. we end up having to "dump" Mo Taylor, yet another FA mistake, for Vin Baker and Moochie and their expiring contracts, while the Spurs go out and move Malik Rose for a legitimate player, Nazr Mohammed who ended up starting for their championship team. This is the one thing about San Antonio that really gets to me: They make their share of personnel mistakes also (can you say Charlie Ward or Rasho Nesterovic?) but SOMEHOW they always manage to recover. That's how well run teams succeed. Under Dawson, the Rockets don't manage to recover from his mistakes.

    So things are supposed to be looking up now because we have $22 million of expiring contracts instead of legitimate players? Sorry, but I just can't subscribe to that line of thinking. I, for one, am simply tired of watching this merry-go-round. While we have settled for Dawson's mediocity over the past 10 years - spending years in the lottery along the way, we were passed by the Spurs, Suns and the Mavericks. We now have Denver nipping at our heels. We were indeed helped greatly by the stupidity in LA last year and the meltdown in Minn but that's not something you can count on to happen every year.

    I want to see the Rockets be better in ALL areas from now on and to not just settle for CD's mediocrity. As for your other questions:

    LA: No, I NEVER said that I expect the Lakers to "leapfrog" us simply because they landed Kwame Brown. What I referred to was how I was curious that LA was able to make a deal since they were "supposedly" in salary cap hell. As for whether or not Kwame will be a difference maker, who knows? LA stabbed themselves in the back last year and for that I'm grateful. Minn is still a mess but I expect both them and LA to do whatever it takes to get back to the playoffs and that makes 2 more possible playoff contenders. After all, we would be the same way if the show was on the other foot so to speak.

    Swift: In my posts about "Stro" I have simply expressed my reservations about his supposedly being "perfect" for our needs at the PF position. I just don't know about this guy - part of me looks at his numbers and physical capabilities while the other part looks at just how little he's done during his time at Memphis and that gives me reason for pause. I'm not saying he'll be a bust or anything like that but I'm not 100% sold on this guy as are you and others here. I am somewhat leery of guys like him who look to cash in during free agency without having a good background of work to justify getting all of those $$$ (that's the rationale behind my "Eric Dampier" remark).

    Free Agent Forwards: Again we agree here. The market this year is dismal and next year's looks to be worse. It looks increasingly unlikely that they will be able to fill their PF need through free agency (Swift wants to get paid and the Rox simply can't pay market rates). Above all, what I don't want a repeat of them going out and getting someone only to end up having to dump him in a few years...again. Faced with that choice, I am willing to be patient for now because I understand just how hard it is going to be to solve this problem. I can be patient because I have confidence in JVG's ability. He has convinced me that he knows what to do. Above all, I want them to make quality player moves because they were smart and resourceful and to not reach (again) for a player out of desperation.

    Don't get me wrong - I am as anxious for this team to improve for anyone else here - maybe even more so. What I don't want is a repeat of the past 10 years. If the Rockets find themselves in a bind today, it's because their past actions have placed them there. As such, there is no easy way out. Last season's 51 wins were nice but let's face facts here: They are still a first round and out playoff team. It will take more than one player to change that and they are limited in what they can actually do this year. I understand that this won't be easy - all I expect to see is steady, consistent progress and so I advocate patience until they can work themselves out of this fix. This next season may be a rough one for the Rockets because the West is a tough place to be. Even if the 2005-2006 season goes badly, you won't see me b****ing and posting about their lack of action because I will understand.

    It's easy to scream about their mistakes and I have done my fair share. Now it's time to let them work their way back to the top. I am willing to give the Rockets' organization (with the exception of Dawson whom I feel has used up all his chances) the opportunity to do just that. It may not qualify as blazing optimism on my part but it does qualify as hope for the future.
     
  13. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Wow, cabbage. Don't hold back, man. Great post!

    Clearly, we have to get JVG the players he wants, if we can, considering the constraints the Rockets have to deal with. I was very pleasantly surprised with the moves that were made last season, besides the genius of the Rape of Orlando. The results speak for themselves, and with some better luck with injuries and more depth, we could have made a serious run last season in the playoffs. You have to give CD and JVG a chance to make their moves, and based on past results, I like our chances.
     
  14. HillBoy

    HillBoy Member

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    If you follow my posts you would have seen that I am on record about my reservations about Juwann at the time of that trade. In fact my exact words were that JH was an OK player, nothing more or nothing less. At the time of the trade, we ended up with a bunch of forwards in the 6'7" to 6'9" range and I expressed my concerns about their being able to match up against the teams in the West. It's not hindsight at all on my part here. They had to trade Taylor because he didn't work out here. So what they ended up doing is to exchange a player won't didn't work out here at a position of critical need for players with expiring contracts that can't help fill that need yet they are supposed to be better off because maybe, just maybe, somebody, somewhere in the future may want to trade for said expiring contracts which gives them "value". And all of this makes them a better team...

    It was CD who traded KT and let Posey walk to clear the decks for Eddie Griffin. That move failed miserably. Oh and please show me one of my posts where I shed one tear over the loss of Mo Taylor. Now, let me ask you this: If Doc is right and this ship is indeed being run by JVG, then why do we need to keep CD around?
     
  15. rimbaud

    rimbaud Member
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    How about the Suns last Summer with Nash?
     

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