1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Chron] Hunsicker must prove that he's trustworthy

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Vengeance, Nov 2, 2005.

  1. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2002
    Messages:
    17,491
    Likes Received:
    2,883
    TP (or was it Uncle D?) stayed the course and struck bloody gold. That is doing something -- unless done because of fear or inertial force.

    Let's see what tomorrow brings and then judge TP.

    Hun? I think he's ok, but not great. Pettitte and Rocket made this team's difference over the year (and last, too, but without anything contributarily from AP) and he, by all accounts, was lucky they fell into his lap on his watch.
     
  2. msn

    msn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    2,093
    My, my, my; how soon we forget. I don't know anything about Hunsicker's personality. He may be an angel, a horse's end, or anywhere in between.

    But, looking over his 10 years with the Astros, anything short of *phenomenal* is not superlative enough. The dude did an incredible job. If he's really been "blacklisted", it's not due to his job performance.

    And, the attempt at the "journalist" (I prefer the term mediot) to credit McLane with much of the signings is utterly laughable. First of all, there's a lot more that made the Astros' organization what it is than the very recent signings of AP and Rocket. Secondly, McLane came into this business knowing *nothing* about baseball, and regardless of how much he may have learned he could *not* run an organization and build its personnel *this* competitive with expert help. TP may have been a huge part of that (well, he was--dude has an awesome eye for talent), but that does not take away from Hun's stellar job performance.

    Here's hoping TP eclipses the Hun, but so far, the Hun is head and shoulders, heck lengths upon lengths, above any GM that has ever worked in Houston.
     
  3. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    73,346
    Likes Received:
    19,396
    i think you misread this article. he says he's a great baseball guy and a great GM. he says the problem is the guy isn't loyal. that he was hard to trust. that's what the whole article is about.

    and i agree with you...he is a tremendous GM. which is why it's so odd he hasn't landed elsewhere. which seems to provide at least some credence to this article.
     
  4. msn

    msn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    2,093
    I caught that the first time around, and forgot it as I read through some of the replies.

    Regardless, that article provided no facts and nothing newsworthy, just rumors. This isn't freaking People magazine. I really wish the hacks at the Comical could give us some world-class journalism and quit with the BS.
     
  5. kevwun

    kevwun Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2003
    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe he doesn't have another gm job because he doesn't want one right now? It doesn't have to be because he's been blacklisted for not being loyal. I'll echo what others have said, why did this article come out now?
     
  6. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    48,946
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Far be it for me to defend the Chronicle, but this is not something unique to them as a newspaper.
     
  7. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 1999
    Messages:
    4,260
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Chronicle blows.
     
  8. RIET

    RIET Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,916
    Likes Received:
    1
    Drayton McLane is as much about PR as he is about winning.

    The only time McLane is willing to shell out the $$ is if there's an angle.

    He doesn't mind giving contracts to Drabek/Swindell/Biggio/Bagwell/Berkman/Pettitte and Clemens - all Houstonians or lifelong Astros.

    Richard Hidalgo burned that money bridge and McLane will probably never go back.

    Now that the Astros are so close, will McLane spend the $$ to get a big bat in the lineup or will he hope our overacheiving lineup can be just good enough to sell tickets and make a playoff run.
     
  9. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    48,038
    Likes Received:
    14,283
    The acquisition of Jeff Kent proves your theory wrong. Also, that was another FA that Drayton acquired sole negotiating rights to, while Hunsicker was forced to take a back-seat.

    As long as Drayton is the owner, he will also be the de-facto GM in terms of signing FA's, and extending the contracts of the current guys. The actual GM of the Astros develops the farm system, and puts together trade opportunities... and for that, Gerry (and TP for the farm system) was invaluable.
     
  10. RIET

    RIET Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,916
    Likes Received:
    1
    Signing Jeff Kent to a 2 year contract - that really proves Im wrong. Maybe if we had Kent this year, we could've actually scored a few more runs in the WS.

    That's about a season and a half more than we had Randy Johnson - also a huge financial risk for Drayton.
     
    #30 RIET, Nov 2, 2005
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2005
  11. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    48,038
    Likes Received:
    14,283
    Or maybe we don't make the WS at all with Kent here:

    1. Biggio floundering in LF (not hitting 26 HR's because he isn't comfortable the entire season, and his legs give out... just as what happened in 2003-04)

    2. Burke never even sniffs the big leagues

    3. Berkman spends the entire year at first... not letting Lamb into the lineup at all.

    Also, I don't look at giving Kent a 2 year deal as a bad thing. In this day and age, with everybody signing huge deals and RARELY living up to them, this was a rare case where the player was actually worth the contract during his time here.

    I, for one, actually expected Kent to put up BIGGER #'s by playing most of his games at MMP during his run here. But, Kent went on record saying that the home ballpark actually isn't as hitter-friendly for a guy like him (more gap power than straight pull-hitter), and he wasn't exactly the most healthy of players during his tenure here either.

    But, I guess in the end... Drayton can never win. He gets slammed for giving huge/long back-loaded contracts to guys like Bagwell, and gets criticized for giving too short of contracts to Kent. He gets slammed for letting Randy Johnson go (forget about the fact that RJ wasn't going to re-sign here regardless), but we hardly hear anything when he refused to re-sign Wade Miller (who was awful for Boston). Beltran goes... its more Mclane's fault for no-trade contract; he locks up Lance Berkman... "that was just a home-town discount" (at 14 million a year, its not).

    Really... Drayton "hate" is getting old... fast.
     
    #31 Nick, Nov 2, 2005
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2005
  12. RIET

    RIET Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,916
    Likes Received:
    1
    Im not saying Kent wouldve been our panacea or that we shouldve signed Kent to a long-term deal. Im saying that other than Hidalgo, Drayton rarely takes chances with big contracts unless there's also a marketing angle.

    And a 2 year deal to Kent was a safe and calculated manuever similiar to all of McLane's other manuevers.

    Im a firm believer that a great owner is someone who wants to win and puts winning above all else. McLane runs the team more like a business than a sports fan.

    Obviously it's his money. But as a fan, I'd much rather have someone dedicated to winning.

    Les Alexander and Bob McNair are much better owners.
     
  13. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    48,038
    Likes Received:
    14,283
    I agree with you totally... McLane doesn't spend blindly, he calculates his moves, and he rarely spends unless he knows he can get something big on that return.

    But, for some reason, its produced a consistently winning franchise over the last 10 years. Maybe not spending after every single FA allows you to not make the many mistakes that can cripple a franchise for years (see Kelvin Cato, Maurice Taylor, Moochie Norris, Matt Maloney, and the Rockets from 99-03). It also forces you to look from within the farm system a little more than you normally would: Roy Oswalt, Brad Lidge, Morgan Ensberg, Jason Lane, Chad Qualls.

    In the end, you can say you don't think he's a great owner because he doesn't hand his GM a blank check... but at the same time, you can't argue about his sucess vs. the other owners who DO spend blindly... or have in the past. (Texas Rangers, LA Dodgers, Baltimore Orioles, Philadelphia Phillies).

    The Astros and the Cardinals are the model franchises in the NL on how to win consistently ... sign your home-grown superstars to long term deals, trade for superstars if needed, and only sign key FA role-players (avoid the disgruntled superstars) to short-term deals.
     
  14. redgoose

    redgoose Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,532
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd put a little money that Hunsicker will be the next GM of the RedSox or Phillies. Hunsicker has always wanted a larger payroll to twiddle with and this is where he can get them. My guess is Boston because of the so called "prestige" that comes with the job.
     
  15. msn

    msn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    2,093
    So, you're a firm believer in running a franchise like Peter Angelos does then? Well, root for him then, and enjoy the "winner" you're saddled with.

    If you follow them closely enough, you will see that even the Yankees are run like a business--some guys are let go, and the budget is set based on projected income. Just because Georgie's income dwarfs anyone else's doesn't mean it's not run like a business.

    You're about five years late, bro.
     
  16. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    48,038
    Likes Received:
    14,283
    Well, the Phillies must not have been too impressed... cause after they interviewed him, they went over and interviewed a guy already with another team... and convinced him to take the job (Pat Gillick).

    And, I wouldn't put money on Hunsicker automatically being successful with a ton of money... part of the thing that I thought made him such a good GM was his ability to scrounge around and find players like Brandon Backe, Mike Lamb, Orlando Palmeiro, and Dan Wheeler... and those names would not even be close to being on the radar if you were a big money team.

    There have been a lot of GM's out there who went from geniuses when they were on mid-market teams, to "idiots" once they got to the big market teams... because they stopped doing what made them successful in the first place (being discreet at evaluating talent, not just signing superstars).
     
  17. Luckyazn

    Luckyazn Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    4,375
    Likes Received:
    68
    Purpura should tell Hunsinker to HOOOK us up with

    Aubrey Huff and maybe Carl Crawford for Everett and Lane ;) ;)
     
  18. RIET

    RIET Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,916
    Likes Received:
    1
    There are always owners who spend foolishly and make mistakes. And there are owners who win will spend whatever it takes if they feel the team is close.

    Drayton is much more conservative with his purse strings than many owners. He's had the fortune of people like Gerry Hunsicker running the club who's saved him with cheap talent and good management. You don't always get that lucky (see Bob McNair).

    Yes, the Yankees are run like a business and they have a much larger revenue stream. However, living in CT and being innundated with Yankees and Red Sox coverage, I can guarantee you Steinbrenner is about winning first. The Yankees have enough revenue source just by their market size alone that they don't have to spend what they do just to make money. They will always have fans.

    If the Yankees or Red Sox ever tried to go the cheap route to save a buck, their fans would rip them to shreds and see through their facade in no time. They may criticize management and/or players but they are loyal, passionate fans. Above all else, they are knowledgeable.

    In Houston, we're much more forgiving because most aren't die hards and we accept making the playoffs as good enough. This is also why Houstonians are often bandwagon fans.
     
    #38 RIET, Nov 2, 2005
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2005
  19. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,403
    Likes Received:
    15,834
    The question, however, is about losing money. The Yankees, with their payroll, still make money. The Astros, with their payroll, break even (more or less). If the Yankees' revenues were lower, they would not spend as much either. Neither team is willing to lose money to win. Drayton, by the way, has more than doubled the payroll over the last 10 years. He's consistently in the top half of baseball in payroll. And wins far more than any other team not named the Braves or Yankees. Can you name one owner that consistently spends above budget and also consistently wins?
     
  20. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2000
    Messages:
    21,622
    Likes Received:
    6,257
    I can't believe people are putting down what Gerry the Hun has done for this team. I mean he ripped the marlins off for alou. He got carl for a scrub rp. He got rid of hampton for two guys who he later used in the beltran deal. He got willy T and wheeler for not much. This are just the moves I can get from the top of my head. This man should be heralded for what he has done for this Team.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now