[Chron] Harris looks for second chance with Rockets

Using your formula....

Hayes - Defense 90....offense 20...

Harris - Defense 60....offense 60.....

Still advantage to Harris.



DD

 

Didn't Harris have a pretty good game against Boston, the best defensive team in the league, when the streak ended?

 

Mario was capable of making 3 pointer, you think Mike Harris can do the same thing too?

you are right Chuck and Novak both are one dimensional, but how about Mike Harris ?? he probably shoots a bit better than Chuck, and can defend a bit better than Novak.

Who would you rather have Battier back up? Novak, Harris, or Greene?

 

Didn't Rick Adelman say Chuck Hayes does alot of dirty work that wasn't shown on the paper.... and it was based on the whole season, not one game

 

I agree that the view "Chuck Hayes is a complete offensive disaster and liability" is overstated. In my opinion, it's not Chuck's inability to shoot 65% on his field goals that hurts our offense. Like you say, with the number of field goal attempts he gets, the difference between 55% and 65-70% is practically negligible in the grand scheme of things. The problem is that he can't be relied on to do score on anything but wide open layups. That puts more burden on his teammates to create a shot. For a team that lacks shot creators as is, that can be really tough when facing good defensive teams.

 

That was Harris' finest hour of the season but it doesn't make him a "decent" offensive player by any stretch of the imagination. He surprised Celts. Good for him! But if he doesn't get better and develop range on offense I'd rather keep Chuck.

 

I think that Luther Head, Chuck Hayes, Steve Novak are gonners, they're gonna be traded, waived, whatever takes to get them out of the team.

Steve Francis?

A lot of guys are going to fight for a spot on the team, look for everyone to give their best so this article doesn't surprise me.

It wouldn't surprise if every player that I mentioned is working his as/ off.

 

Sure. I like both players. And, for the record, I disagree with DD that Mike has more value to the team. Though I can see where he's coming from, considering we'll likely have Scola, Landry, and Dorsey available for that position.

 

I agree with you DD. Although my reasoning may not be the same.

It's not that Harris is so much better. It's that we need a backup 3 more. It's that simple. If Hayes had an offensive game I am sure that would not have drafted Dorsey. But Hayes is one of the most pathetic offensive players in the league. There are only a few players worst. I would say he is even worst than Deke because at least he can hit a few more free throws. Harris is not Hayes on defense but he is no slouch and if he can play the 3 than he becomes much more valuable to the team than Hayes.

Yes Hayes brings a special type of defense to the team. Not since Karla have I seen anyone slap the basketball away so well. He is a prolific low block slapper. If you take that away his defense becomes average. But with it he becomes good. Personally I think Scola plays almost as good a defense in a different way. And he gives us tons more on offense. But Kudos to Hayes for his style of hustle. Still he is a backup who wasn't just replaced by Scola but landry beat him out for backup until Landry's injury. ANd now Dorsey comes in the picture and if he plays as management expects there is just no room at the Inn. We cannot afford the Luxury of 4 pf's That makes Hayes expendable.

And if Harris can truly pay the 3 he becomes a needed addition.

SO that relegates Hayes as backup only Landry beat him out of that until he got injured and now Dorsey is drafted and

 

You appear to be missing the point here. I don't expect starters to be sat in the playoffs. I was pointing out that because starters play more minutes in the playoffs, they tend to have better stats. You compared Okur's playoff rebounding stats to his regular season ones and I was pointing out that although you were correct in that he rebounded better in the Rockets series, it wasn't by as wide a margin as you suggested because he played more minutes per game in the series than he averaged in the regular season. Don't read anything else into it because I'm agreeing with you mostly but trying to put it into perspective....and although Okur rebounded better in the series, I don't think it's necessarily because of his height - especially because the guy does NOT play above the rim.

...and Okur got that rebound at the end because Landy & Tmac weren't on the same page. Landry went for the board and appeared to defer to Tmac at the last second when Tmac deflected it to Okur. It was poor communication by the two of them - Landry should have just cleared the board as he had the position. A rookie mistake, but I don't think he lost that board because he was shorter - just a freak play. It broke my heart too but I don't think the outcome would have been any different it Landry had been two or three inches taller - when a guy deflects the ball from you that close, you don't have any time to react.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DNeGZ_MaGeg

I'm not clear what the point of that statement is. This is a thread where people are discussing whether Harris will make the roster despite all the hard work he appears to be putting in. Several people care otherwise we wouldn't have 4+ pages of discussion. I think if most people here are debating whether he even makes the roster, it's implied that he will likely be an end of the bench guy who we all know won't see a lot of PT. I'm not sure who you refer to who "can't see that" - but surely it wasn't me who specifically mentioned in my previous post that he was a bottom of the roster guy.

...you guys sure are defensive around here. I suppose we can chalk that up to being passionate Rockets fans but let's not forget we are all fans together.

 

Exactly what I am talking about....2 years ago......not the same as today.

And I like Chuck Hayes, I just think he is redundant now.

It is funny to me to see people clamoring to cut Novak for lack of development and not Hayes for the same thing.

They both are outstanding on one end of the court, and putrid on the other.....

To me, if they can be replaced, then so be it, they should have worked on their deficiencies more in the offseason.

And I think offensive players can be taught to be decent at defense whereas defensive players learning how to score seems to be a lot more rare.

And scoring the ball is the most important thing in the game.

DD

 

Consistently missing open layups is horrible. Hayes is horrible.

 

You're examples show that he does his best with his abilities which is completely true. The problem is that he is around the bottom of the league in terms of actual abilities and his height doesn't help the situation. But, even with that no one's game planning for Harris' offensive prowess either.

I don't get how DD compares Hayes' being one dimensional to Novak being one dimensional, though. Novak can only shoot, he is terrible at many other offensive things such as finishing around the rim, handles, post ups, moving w/o the ball, etc. Hayes is great at all things on defense AND he can rebound. It doesn't add up.

 

Well, I don't like using words like "horrible" to describe Chuck's game, because he's a favorite of mine. I would say, all else being equal, that a 1-dimensional perimeter shooter has more value than a 1-dimensional layup shooter. Though Chuck does some other things on offense that often get overlooked which should also be added to the equation. Very good pick setter and offensive rebounder.

 

Only shoot?

The most important aspect of the entire game and Novak is not just good at it, he is ELITE at it.....

Agree with your assesment of Hayes on Defense, the point I was making was that they both have had multiple seasons to strengthen their weaknesses, and while Novak has improved a bit on defense, Hayes has gotten worse on offense.

I think they are both expendable, but what I believe it all boils down to is an individual value system.

Do you value defense more than offense or vice versa....I value offense more than defense.

DD

 

Hey I like Haye's hustle as much as the next guy, but be honest Hayes can't hit an outside jumpshot with any consistency. He is 50% because he shoots almost all are layups and dunks. A large part of his shots were wide open layups assisted from Tmac. And even then he missed some. An NBA player shouldn't miss more than a few layups in a season. I have seen Hayes do that in a game.

 

so we can come up a conclusion, release Harris, trade Hayes, and keep Novak as 3 pt speicalist on an occasion