[Chron]Gundy: Players should enjoy win + Spanoulis wasn't good

I've watched two Nets game both of which was on Espn, the first was on Nov 3 vs Miami and the recent Nov 24th game vs Phoenix, both of which were lossess and Busti played horribly.

You on the other hand have yet to explain why Busti is of any value to the rockets AND have provided ZERO evidence beyond simple and empty conjecture to substantiate your argument. For example, just you stating "Busti is New Jersey's David Lee" or "D(efense) is what Busti is best at now" does not make it true, nor does it in anyway supports your argument. I have already given you ample statistics which shows his inept production and which I used to support my argument, which is basically - Busti sucks. So please, instead of saying "you must have not watched him played" or "he must have had a cold" or "HE IS REALLLY goood REALLLY! I swear it" please refute those statistics or bring your own and thereby bringing something substaintal or credible to the conversation; Otherwise theres really no use discussing anything with you.

 

blah -
i agree with you wholeheartedly that we shoulda made the Wesley/Boki-JJ trade, and i believe that Wesley turning around our team at that time was reason enough for that trade, notwithstanding Boki's alleged improved play this season.

however, relying entirely on statistics isn't always the best method. i'll admit that i haven't seen boki play even one minute this season or last, but if he's important defensively as all of his backers here claim that he is, then his impact won't be entirely reflected in his straight statistics.

if you look at chucky's numbers and shane's numbers, they don't blow you away, but i think we can all agree that their defensive presence has an [intangible] impact on the game. keeping their man below their season avg., creating tough shots, forcing turnovers, drawing charges, and overall hustle are things not reflected in the box score. to find shane & chucky's impact, and apparently boki's impact, too, we'd have to look deeper - not just at the box score, but also at the trend analyses that we often find in the GARM by posters like durvasa, etc.

 

how do they say it??? PWND

 

LOL Busti

 

On the third hand, you were too busy blabbing (like your nick) to read what I wrote. Hint: the "best 5-man unit" is a standard stat, and as I said earlier, Boki is on New Jersey's. He is also on NJ's 2nd best unit. And the 3rd. And the 4th.

Before you start attacking an article, I suggest you actually read the article. Less embarrassment for you that way.

 

i totally agree with you. i was just telling Blah that, though i also agreed with his conclusion, i think it's a bit of reach to point only at Boki's [paltry] stats to prove Terse wrong.

i pulled for Boki a lot when he was here. i desperately believed that he was finally going to start coming around, the same way i pulled for Brent Price, Dan Langhi, Stromile, and, yes, even Eddie Griffin. but ultimately, you need to know when to pull the plug, and i'm glad that the Rox did so when they did.

i'm still not sold on his shooting, though, his stats notwithstanding. in my swingman rotation, here's who'd get minutes ahead of him:

Big Mac
Who's your daddy, Battier
Lutha
Bonziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Snyder
Young Nova
Preseason Pat Carroll
Boki
Casey "hot wife" Jacobsen

i don't think we're hurting from his absence.

 

I totally agree that not evertyhing shows up in the box scores and that trend anyalysis, +/- ratings and intangibles are often very useful tools in analyzing the productivity of a player. Chuck Hayes is a good player whos production is revealed not only in his box scores but also his +/- ratings. Shane Battier on the other hand production is reveal more in trend anaylsis, +/- ratings, despite his overall traditional numbers being very efficient. He has in every year since he's been in the league had a substantially positive +/- rating. However one has to bear in mind, when looking at trend analysis and +/- minutes, sample size matters. Busti may have decent or good +/- minutes or good defensive +/- minutes at the moment but it doesnt mean he is Shane Battier. Its early in the season, the sample size is exceedingly small. One blowout or two can substantially affect those numbers.

For example, in those same trend analysis... Jason kidd in the first 12 games is giving up 10 more points on the court versus off the court... while Busti is giving up 10 less on the court. So are the stats enough to say Busti is a great defensive presence while Jkidd is a horrible defensive player OR rather and MORE LIKELY that the stats are inaccurate due to it being early, the sample size being too small and there are likely the presence of blowouts, coincidences and flukes which skews the anaylysis? I'd take the latter explanation.

 

Umm... if you are refering to your post as an article, let me just say, what deluded, r****ded, underbudget, alternate universe are you writing for?

As for your attempt at supporting your argument that not having Busti is a great loss to the Rockets... NJ best 5 man unit you say. Just for the sake of argument, I'm gonna assume this is not one of those baseless "Busti is NJ's David Lee" statements you made earlier but rather a reference to 82.games.

So are you saying Busti is great at D and is a good player because he shows up as the best 5 man unit for NJ in 06-07 thru 12 games? You do realize that lone statistical analysis is constructed from on a whopping 23 mins on court time dont you? And that the best 2 man 3 man 4 man etc are analyzed from less than 15 minutes EACH! Do you really think that statistical analysis that are derived from 20 minutes of actual results are good indicators of what is true in the real world? According to your logic, the nets should bench RJefferson to the bench for the rest of the year and have Nachbar and Wright take his minutes.

I guess it shouldnt suprise me to find your lone attempt to make a substantive case for why Busti doesnt suck is build on almost as little substance as statements like "Busti is NJ's David Lee" I love that one!

 

Not baseless. Boki is the closest thing NJ has to David Lee. And yes, I was referring to 82games.com. I thought everybody knew that.

Well, Blabby, <a href="http://www.82games.com/0607/06NJN7B.HTM">you should have noticed</a> that Boki was in all five of NJ's best 5-man units, for a total of 11% of all of New Jersey's minutes to date.

Furthermore, the five best units combined went +53, whereas NJ as a whole is roughly -13.

Not bad, I would say. This is still a pretty small sample, but not nearly as small as you pretend.

 

LOL you just keep digging! Boki is as much NJ's David Lee as Lawrence Frank is!

Not nearly as small as I pretend?? HERE is the truth, since you seem to delude yourself into believing fantasy; The top 5 man unit is comprised from 25 minutes of on court time! The second 5 man unit is comprised of 12 mintutes of on court time! The 3rd is 15,
the 4th & 5th rely on only 10 minutes each! Do you really think 25minutes or 10 minutes is a large enough sample size to make the anaylysis true? You are aware that 1 good 5 minute performance in a blowout loss by these bench player would produce these numbers. You are also aware that the 2nd best 5 man unit 82 games shows which nearly matches the top 5 man unit consists of Williams-Adams-Wright-Nachbar-Moore, and excludes Jkidd, V.Carter, Rjeff AND Kristic. And that thru 12 games it was showing Kidd as giving up 10 more points on court than off court! Do you really think it would be valid to make an argument that Kidd sucks, based on these SMALL sample.

If you truly believe that trend analysis based on 25 min of game time or 12 games of individual +/- that is in contradiction to their historical data, is a reliable or substantive basis to prop up ur lover boy busti is BEYOND idiotic! But sense we have ample evidence of that in this thread, I guess I shouldnt be suprise.

 

owned

 

Boki is the closest that NJ has to David Lee. What part of that do you not understand?

(Patiently) It's not 10 minutes, or even 23 minutes. It's <a href="http://www.82games.com/0607/06NJN7B.HTM">70 minutes total</a> for Boki on NJ's best 5-man units, during which they were +53. Think of it as two games -- two huge blowouts. The sample is pretty small but not totally negligible.

By the way, the only player who appears in all of the best units is.... Boki.

And Kidd is on most of the best 5-man units, so, no, he doesn't suck.

 

Boki averaged almost 16 minutes a game before Jefferson's injury, so you are wrong to imply that Boki did not earn his floor time.

By the way, Boki is most effective these days at the 4 -- which is where we could really use him now.

Or perhaps Lawrence Frank wanted to get Jefferson going again after his injury.

 

Oops, my previous post got truncated somehow....

We didn't have to wait: Boki was fine at New Orleans too. A 15-20 minute/game player who fits our present defensive needs as well as Boki does is not easy to find.

In throwing away the future (Boki) in exchange for immediate help (Wesley), Gundy blundered twice over:

(1) We now have nothing, absolutely zip, for Boki.

(2) Wesley boosted us just enough to avoid the lottery, but not enough to achieve anything serious. We would have been better off with the ping pong balls. With the 7th or 8th choice in 2005, we could have gotten Charlie Villaneueva, Channing Frye, or Ike Diogu. We would now be vastly better off if we had been able to draft any of these three.

This is the cost of short sightedness. It is exactly the reason why the Knicks have been floundering for years: because Gundy plundered that franchise's future in order to "win now".