1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Chron]Gundy: Players should enjoy win + Spanoulis wasn't good

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Van Gundier, Nov 23, 2006.

  1. terse

    terse Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    0
    They use up valuable roster spots. A better coach than JVG would have used those spots for training younger players.

    Is anyone denying that JVG spent seven years in NY as head coach and ended up with zero championships and zero young talent?

    Whereas Rudy left us possibly the most promising young roster in the NBA.
     
  2. Van Gundier

    Van Gundier Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Valuable roster spots to sign whom?

    I'm trying to remember who else out there as an option when we signed, for example, Rick Brunson and Charles Oakley.


    And yet there are all these "Bring Rudy back!!!!!" and "Rudy >>> JVG" posts.

    I guess those guys just prefer Maloney, Cato, the Iso-mania Twins to Battier, Sura, Wesley, Barry, etc.
     
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    128,982
    Likes Received:
    39,450

    How many USA teams did JVG get asked to coach? How many gold medals did he lead the team to?

    Rudy is the last coach to lead team USA to a Gold medal.

    DD
     
  4. Van Gundier

    Van Gundier Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    True.. Rudy was great at balancing all these egos on an All Star team. If Van Gundy ever got put in charge of that, he'd probably get a few stars and a ton of Battier/Mike James-type guys.
     
  5. azn perzuazn

    azn perzuazn Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    JVG SUCKS!!!!
     
  6. terse

    terse Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    0
    If Mark Jackson hadn't hogged a roster spot for half a season in 03-04, we could have nabbed Beno Udrih a year before the Spurs drafted him. Or we could have waited for Boki to develop; he has become a pretty good player this year, especially on D. Even Lonny Baxter would have contributed more than Rod Strickland.

    JVG's old man love has closed off a lot of options for us. I don't want us to end up like his Knicks, with zero championships and zero young talent.
     
  7. Van Gundier

    Van Gundier Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Explain to me specifically how this is supposed to happen and how it relates to Mark Jackson. I'm confused.

    Missing out on Lonnie Baxter is worth fretting over?

    Boki? He couldn't develop during all these years, how is Mark Jackson stunting his growth?
     
  8. Zboy

    Zboy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    27,234
    Likes Received:
    21,958

    There are limited roster spots and even more limited players rotation.

    If players on wheel-chairs are taking up majority of playing time, it steals from the minutes young players could use to develop and produce in near future.

    Case in point: Juwan Howard.
     
  9. Van Gundier

    Van Gundier Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Beno Udrih was drafted in the first round Summer of 2004.

    Did he declare for the draft in 2003?

    If not, how can a team draft a player who did not declare for the draft?

    Assume for a second that he could be drafted in Summer of 2003.

    The Rockets did not have a first round pick in the 2003 draft. Thanks to decisions made back in the Rudy era, I believe.

    So unless Udrih would have lasted all the way to pick 44, the Rockets probably couldn't have drafted him.

    Now let's assume for a second that the Rockets do have an first round pick in 2003 or Udrih would have lasted until 44.

    Mark Jackson did not sign with the Rockets until January 15th, 2004, a couple weeks after Rudy Era signee Moochie Norris got traded.

    So unless there is evidence that in the Summer of 2003 that the Rockets knew that they would sign Mark Jackson in January of 2004 to take up Udrih's spot, I'm not sure how signing Mark Jackson has anything to do with Udrih.


    As for "players need minutes to develop!!!" Players will develop according to their talent/committment rather than developmental entitlement minutes. All the minutes in the world didn't turn Curry into more than what he is. Playing few minutes as a rookie did not preven Kevin Martin from becoming a very productive player.
     
  10. HoopsFancy

    HoopsFancy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    0
    here is a reminder of juwan's glorious days. scoring leader for 95-96 :D

    Player G FG FT PTS PPG
    Michael Jordan (Chicago) 82 916 548 2491 30.4
    Hakeem Olajuwon (Houston) 72 768 397 1936 26.9
    Shaquille O'Neal (Orlando) 54 592 249 1434 26.6
    Karl Malone (Utah) 82 789 512 2106 25.7
    David Robinson (San Antonio) 82 711626 2051 25.0
    Charles Barkley (Phoenix) 71 580 440 1649 23.2
    Alonzo Mourning (Miami) 70 563 488 1623 23.2
    Mitch Richmond (Sacramento) 81 611 425 1872 23.1
    Patrick Ewing (New York) 76 678 351 1711 22.5
    Juwan Howard (Washington) 81 733 319 1789 22.1
     
  11. terse

    terse Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    0
    We could have signed Udrih as a free agent, if Mark Jackson hadn't been hogging a roster spot. The agreements between the NBA and NCAA did not apply to Udrih, a Slovenian.

    As for the other Slovenian, Boki, we basically dumped him in favor of Ryan Bowen. When Bowen was signed, I distinctly remember saying to myself, "Uh oh, Boki's toast!" And he was. In retrospect, I really wish we had kept him; his defence, shooting, rebounding, and elbows would be perfect for us now.

    Who knows what other options JVG's wheelchair club (tm Zboy) has closed off for us.
     
  12. m004378

    m004378 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2003
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen and you can say that again. To play novak? IT WILL BE AT THE COST OF ANOTHER PLAYER'S INJURY. Thanks to Van "boneheaded" gundy's genius mind, he keeps using the same set of players he thinks he can trust until they get worn-out and injury sets in. It is obvious that Yao has stamina issue and this is the cause of his "4th quarter vanishing syndrome" , but if the bonehead can play Mutombo+Bonzi in the 3rd quater in replacement of Yao, Mutombo provides the defence while Bonzi can post-up and maintain the offensive flow, with the increased rest time, you can expect Yao to explode in the 4th, the win can be more guarateed and we fans are spared from the heart attack.
     
  13. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 1999
    Messages:
    7,157
    Likes Received:
    518
    Please Shutup already and go ahead and have sex with Van Gundy.
     
  14. NewYorker

    NewYorker Ghost of Clutch Fans

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2002
    Messages:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    41
    Do you realize that writing this actually makes you look worse?
     
  15. Outlier

    Outlier Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Messages:
    8,529
    Likes Received:
    1,351
    He provides valid points and this is what you come back with? Pretty smart guy, you are.
     
  16. Van Gundier

    Van Gundier Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    0

    So, if "agreement between NBA and NCAA" is the only reason why teams don't sign players before they are drafted and NBA teams can sign every European player as free agents before they are drafted, why do teams keep on wasting their draft picks on foreign players like Dirk, Darko, Yao, Parker, Udrih etc? Why not just sign their asses "as free agents" as you claim they can do?

    Are they stupid?

    Please explain.








    As for Boki vs. Bowen... who cares.. Rockets got some uses out of Bowen his first season, then he wasn't ready to play a bigger part last year. Big deal. Boki got us David Wesley for a couple of fairly productive seasons.

    He looks semi-decent now, but if he were on the Rockets now and getting 15-20 ppg... guess what? People would be b****ing about him stealing Novak's minutes. Players like him are not worth fretting over.
     
    #196 Van Gundier, Nov 25, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2006
  17. Van Gundier

    Van Gundier Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    0

    Back already from cross-burning in front of Rafer's house?



    If this is where you want the thread to go, I'll play. But it's hardly useful or have anything to do with the original topic.
     
    #197 Van Gundier, Nov 25, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2006
  18. Amel

    Amel Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Messages:
    10,642
    Likes Received:
    5,733
    Gundier, what was your name on RGM?

    this thread is going nowhere right now...
     
  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    128,982
    Likes Received:
    39,450

    This is an uncalled for statement.........and below you...

    DD
     
  20. Van Gundier

    Van Gundier Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Perhaps... and sorry, but I was merely saying that If OMR wants to sink the level of the converstion down to "Shut up and have sex with Van Gundy," I'll go down with him.

    I made a post saying Van Gundy was not responsible for wasting picks on Fred Weis and John Wallace and Rudy was not personally responsible for Rockets winning the lottery and getting Yao. Then I got "shut up and have sex with Van Gundy" as the response.


    I'm just tired of every single topic degenerating into "Van Gundy sucks and anyone who defends him suck! You stupid ****s should suck his dick!!! Bring Rudy back!!!!"


    Does anyone remember the original topic? Van Gundy saying the players should enjoy the win and that Spanoulis was "not good, but outstanding"?
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now