Bro, if you took the time to read any of my posts you'll see that I have never said anything negative about VY - other than he has a terrible delivery(which is undebateable) and he has some question marks because of the offense he played in. If you going to say something and include that gay eye rolling face - know what you are talking about. I like VY, but people on hear are going ape **** over the guy. I hate when people bash another players accomplishments to pump up their guy. It is OK to compare VY to Montana, Young and Elway, but if you compare Bush to Sanders you are way off ect..... Ric - see what I am talking about?
So, in your opinion, it's not at all possible that DS has real concerns about Bush? He's just putting Bush down to pump up VY? That's my problem with what you're saying. I believe that Bush will be a special player. I also believe that VY will be a special player. That doesn't mean because I believe both of those things that other people can't have a different opinion. Not to mention, when you argue for something over something else, you typically not only highlight what you feel are your position's strong points, you also highlight what you believe are the opposite position's weak points. Not to mention, DS has mentioned that he believes that Bush is talented and could be a great back in the NFL. He just happens to think that VY is and will be the better player. It's called having a different opinion. You're calling him close-minded for simply having a different opinion than you. If he was making the same arguments, yet he was pro-Bush and anti-VY, would you be so upset about it? I doubt it. I sure haven't seen you chastise people like IC2000 like you have DS.
You've had your mind made up for months. You're agreeing with someone calling VY supporters close-minded because they already have their minds made up, yet you criticized people who actually changed their mind by bringing up posts made over a year ago. It's no wonder those jokes are so popular.
Its obvous most people would take young/leinart over carr. That is not the question. Do you take Young/ Leinart over Carr and Bush together. The answer there is the debate. I think its a no brainer to take Bush/ Carr. This if crap is irrelevant. If the ohio state tight end catches the ball, if stephen mcgee doesn't fumble inside the 15 yardline. If A&m doesn't run that idiotic punt formation. If etc... It does not matter Young was not even close to the heisman. The voting speaks for itself. Its clear who the best college player was at the time. If the Rose bowl changes people's opinions, it is too late then.
I wanted bush over anyone. I think Leinart is better than Young. I have the right to my opinion. I did not criticize people for changing their minds. I just brought it up because it is freaking hilarious how Vince/ Mack were thrown under the bus and then all of a sudden everyone jumped right back on when he finally got it together.
And what you and others don't seem to understand is that everyone else as a right to their opinion. A year=all of the sudden? Uh, no.
that doesn't mean I can't argue their opinion. When you have an opinion you feel that you are right and are going to stick with it for the most part. Therefore, with people having strong opinions towards Young, if you are pro bush or undecided this is not the place to have a discussion. Both sides are really narrow minded and you will get frustrated. And yes one season is all of a sudden in this situation.
The Rose Bowl didn't really change opinions so much as it showed those previous opinions as completely wrong.
I certainly do not have a problem with people that have a different opinion. i guess I just have a problem with the way people make their cases. It seems some many are looking at VY through burnt orange glasses, that I feel the need to defend Bush a bit more. For example, I have heard ad nauseum - Bush can't run inside - why not ? Dunn is an excellent inside runner and he is smaller. There are lots of RBs that are similar in size to Bush and have been extremely effective. I do agree that DS has said he thinks Bush will be good, but again, he makes comparisons with VY and Young, Elway ect.. but if you compare Bush to Sanders (a fair comparison talent and size wise) he'll disagree. Why is it fair to compare one guy to former greats but not other - make sense? I personally feel like the QB position is waaaayyy overrated. More often than note when you see a great QB they are surrounded with great talent. QBs don't block, catch passes, or run routes. If a WR takes a five yd out and fakes a DB out of his jock and runs for 80yds should the QB get a ton of credit? BTW, I rarely chasitsed anyone. I know the written word oftens seems like it has a negative tone, but rarely do I go after anyone. I have debated with DS. I personally like VY, if we can get something of value for Carr and the Texans feel like VY is the guy, great! Would I like to see Bush here - sure. Would I be happy if they traded down to take Hawk or DeBrick -yep. My singular problem with VY is they have a QB. I personally don't know how good Carr is because despite what anyone says the guy has been given no help. If we take VY and get nada for Carr, then I think it may hurt the team overall because VY would still be without the weapons that Carr was without.
That is your opinion. I do not think one game makes him a better player. Young proved he was a big game player. I still have seen him play terrible (to the point where i thought just like other ut fans he would never be a QB) but i have also seen him play amazing (to the point where you wonder if he could really do it in the NFl). The question is what will we see in the NFL. The transition will be much easier for Bush.
one year is not "all of a sudden." it's roughly half of the games VY started. we're not talking about a huge sample size of a college career here. and improvement can be dramatic. it definitely was in VY's case. i don't know how you can argue that it wasn't.
Over the last two years VY further disinguished himself as the competition got better (more NFLers on the other side of the ball) whereas Bush's best games were generally not versus his best opponents. I fail to see why one should be more confident Bush's strengths (predicated on speed, quickness and being in the open field) carry over to the speedier, tighered spaced (running, receiving, and returning) NFL than VY's strengths (speed and quickness are only one of many strengths).
This is one of the points I have made since the beginning. I think Carr could potentially be a better than average QB with the right surrounding peices. Since the offensive line will be changed anyway, whether either VY or RB is picked, I cancel that out. What's left over? A.) Do you think that VY, Davis, Johnson, Mathis will be better? or.... B.) Do you think Carr, Bush, Davis, Johnson, Mathis will be better? I pick "B", because Carr is athletic and he can throw. Bush will swap time at RB and the slot either providing much needed rest (or wear and tear) for Davis, as well as add a reciving and open field threat. If they decide to trade down (which I highly doubt), I'm ok with that too. There better be positive results (soon), or else the fans will probably lose interest and give up. I would hate to see this happen. Picking VY, because he is the local hero is not the right reason. Picking Bush, because he won the Heisman is not the right reason either. The Texans need to understand the weaknesses of the team and draft the players best suited for the future of the team. By team, I mean a winning team. Perhaps this should have been in the other thread.
FYI, the Texans could wait another couple of years and take Ramonce Taylor if they're looking for a gamebreaking hybrid WR/TB/KR. RT scored 15 TDs last year on a 6.8 ypc average. He's not Reggie Bush, but would provide a similar gamebreaking threat without having to spend the #1 overall pick.
well, not sure if there’s a quantifiable way to define “top,” but there are 117 defenses in the nation; ranking among the top 50 is certainly in the ballpark of “top,” isn’t it? among USC’s opponents, 4 ranked in the top 39 against the run. that’s the top third of the nation. except it’s voted on, and awarded, prior to a single bowl game. bush wasn’t a close winner, either; he had the widest margin in first place votes since oj simpson – it was a landslide victory. if VY’s lone rose bowl performance would have dramatically shifted that voting dynamic, then it cheapens the award, which is supposed to honor the year’s best player; not the player who had the best final game. don’t let his four years in HOU blur the memory of his senior season – the guy had a better year – statistically – than young or leinart: 344/533 (64.5%); 4,839 yards; 45/9. he was a MONSTER his senior year. and before you hit “submit reply” on the inevitable, “weak competition” retort, just remember his competition was no weaker than his teammates. it’s not like he played on miami’s 2002 team dotted with future first rounders. look, and you know me to be reasonably sane, etc – we’ve debated often. and yes, i want the texans to draft bush. you did, too, until the rose bowl. so you know i’m not posting half-cocked. it’s not the pro-VY sentiment that gets old, it’s that it too often is being done at reggie bush’s expense. a sampling, just from this thread: all unsubstantiated rubbish. and the ramonce post ranks as borderline r****ded (no offense), and underscores the UT agenda. if you want to argue for VY, go for it. tell us why VY is great; tell us why he’d be the right pick. it shouldn’t have anything to do with reggie bush. or that he’s from HOU. i could care less where he was born. none of my favorite athletes were born in HOU – campbell, olajuwon, bagwell, malone… we have threads celebrating warren moon, born in california. that crap means ZERO to me. i think reggie bush adds a dynamic to this team that it’s never had: fear. watching steve smith dominate playoff games while averaging just 11 touches a game and then seeing fast willie parker break open the super bowl with speed has only reinforced my stance on bush – this team needs a guy who can, on every single play, put a defense on its heels, create space for his teammates, and break games open with speed and elusiveness that is unique and special. i think carr can be a legitimately good NFL QB. i think bush helps him; i think bush will open things up for AJ; i think DD will be a bigger weapon with bush in the same backfield. i think the line will suddenly look a lot better when LBs and/or Ss have to start accounting for bush on every play. VY had a great year. he was mesmerizing in the rose bowl (though, again, the perception bush was not up to par rankles me). i just think bush is a better fit, and answers a bigger need on this team.
Had Texas been #1 and in the Rose Bowl, and SC playing in the Fiesta (probably PSU is in if SC loses to ND), with very few persons even interested in the SC-Fresno game, yes indeed VY would have won the Heisman, probably by a landslide. Of course this is speculative, but I think the evidence supports this. Heisman voter "polls" showed Leinart up early, than VY (after the OSU game) than Bush (after the Fresno game). The severe swing happended from the course of the Fresno and A&M games when voters were undecided. Had Texas been a unnanemous #1 and only undefeated team, plus with a mix VY stats and highlight plays, IMO it wouldn't have been a close Heisman race. Middle of the road if I recall. But let's not pretend they didn't have talent or speed. Just watch where Bing gets drafted (1st day for sure). See where other players off that team will get drafted. The underperformed all year in terms of some criteria (not others, lead the nation in TOs), but they have speed and talent. Also, did VY not elevate the game and be the difference maker in the Michigan game last year and OSU game this year. You think that OSU defense has anything less than 5 future NFLers on it? Here is the rub I can't see why you haven't got. I, and many others favoring VY, have talked about Bush's strengths and concerns, and agree he is a legit top 3 type choice. Most of the pro-Bush guys don't talk about VY's strengths near as much. My main argument is not that Bush might not be a special running back in the NFL, but that VY is the best college player I and many others without UT connections have seen and has too many special qualities in the most important pro football position to pass up. So are burnt orange glass a bigger part of this debate that gets nastly at times, or maroon or other orange-hater glasses a bigger part of the nastyness at worst, and ludicrousness at best of many of the comments. Further, I also am open to change my mind based on favorable workouts from Bush or unfavorable workouts from VY, and laid out what they might look like. I have not heard anything from the pro-Bush camp for what VY needs to show to say, yeah, maybe we should build our team with him.You tell me who has the more open mind. Correct. It cannot be seriously debated who was the best college football player last year. You can debate who will be the best pro, but the debate of the best college football player is over, and it wasn't the guy who got the Heisman. This is not even close to the 1st time this has happened where the best player didn't get the Heisman, so this should not be a major surprise or anythign unique about this year.
Ric, Basically, what you're saying is that people who have a different opinion than you are annoying. You may disagree with what they're saying about Bush, but that's their opinion. Are you saying you've never argued in favor of one thing over another and didn't point out a single detriment that you believed one thing had? Ok. BTW, I don't really care who we take. I personally believe that the Texans are in a no-lose situation. The inability of Bush supporters to handle differences of opinions without calling them annoying or rubbish is the only reason I'm even stepping into the debate.
