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Chron: Dig deep to keep Beltran

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by bigboymumu, Aug 4, 2004.

  1. bigboymumu

    bigboymumu Member

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    Bob,
    Seriously, what does this have to do with Kent's signing? I still think he is a "professional hitter".
     
  2. codell

    codell Member

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    Quit avoding the fact that you were once on the Kent wagon, and have now done a 180 based on 100% hindsight.
     
  3. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    We're simply calling you out on your hindsight. In November of 2003, you wrote that everyone except Kent and Berkman could go. In August 2004, you wrote that "signing Kent was a mistake". Obviously you must have been wrong in November 2003 or are you wrong now? Not only that, you chose to write it in ALL CAPS.

    It is so easy NOW to say:

    "signing Bagwell beyond 2003 was a mistake"
    "hiring Jimy Williams was a mistake"
    "signing Drabek and Swindell was a mistake"
    "giving Hidalgo big money after 2000 was a mistake"

    In retrospect, it would probably have been better to sign a solid starter in 2003 (someone like Woody Williams), leave Biggio at 2nd and have Lane play CF (unless a different CF could have been acquired). Unfortunately the folks in charge don't have the benefit of hindsight. Even you must have thought it was a good signing considering you thought he was only 1 of 2 hitters worth keeping on the entire team.
     
  4. bigboymumu

    bigboymumu Member

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    I have no problem with Kent. (except for his injuries). The problem (which I know you know by now) is having to move Biggio to the outfield.... I'll save the rest because you know them already.
     
  5. gunn

    gunn Member

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    Great, that was nearly 3 years ago. We're talking about last winter here, when Drayton had a chance to renegotiate Berkman's contract. He chose not to, and like Justice said, "he dared him to have a good season". I don't blame Berkman if he wants to leave this snake-run team.
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    how 'bout a "keeper?"
     
  7. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    yeah..i know them. i know the leadoff hitter batting around .300 with 17 homers and around 50 RBI's is the downfall of this team...the bane of your existence...the player that has no place on anyone's roster in the major leagues. right.
     
  8. Lil Francis

    Lil Francis Member

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    Max are you a big Drayton McClane fan? Because I noticed everytime I bash him or others bash him you always defend him. You may be the only one on here who likes him.
     
  9. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Seriously, it is better for someone's credibility to say that the signing is a mistake (and why) at the time of the signing rather than 18 months down the road.
     
  10. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    please don't cite justice to back up any valid point you may have. this guy would have kent off the team and chris duhon leading the charge for the rockets. MOST houston fans would disagree with both of those idea.
     
  11. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    i don't know that i'm a fan. i will say he's far and away the best owner this franchise has ever seen. i will also say that i don't blame him at all for this season's problems. the team he put on the field SHOULD be better than they are. they're not playing up to the potential that virtually every baseball fan and expert thought they could play to. when that happens, you don't point the finger at the owner. particularly when he brings in names like pettitte, clemens and beltran in a 6 month period.
     
  12. codell

    codell Member

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    So let me get your logic straight ..........Berkman signs a premature contract that gives him financial security, much earlier than he normally would (by Berkman's quote, he is happy with this deal). This contract was based on his very productive 2001 and 2002 seasons. Berkman KNOWS this contract won't allow him to become a FA and renegotiate until after the 2005 season. Berkman follows up with a mediocre 2003 and 2004 (on pace) season based on his previous standards, and Drayton is a "snake" for waiting to negotiate an extension???

    Do you really think Berkman's 2003 and 2004 seasons are worth more than the $8 MIL hell get next season??



    :rolleyes:
     
  13. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    I defend McLane as well. The moves he makes tend to be forgotten with the moves folks think he should make. The payroll has continually increased during his tenure with still no playoff series wins to show for it.

    For instance, a few are already bashing him for not extending Berkman's contract. This is probably a non-issue. He spent the money to sign Hidalgo yet he got bashed after 2001/2002 for spending the money to sign Hidalgo. He would have gotten bashed for letting Biggio/Bagwell go, yet he is now getting bashed for signing them to long term deals. He gets bashed for not signing free agents, yet he gets bashed for signing Jeff Kent (as an example).
     
  14. gunn

    gunn Member

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    That's right, it's valid, and don't act like you know something otherwise.
     
  15. bigboymumu

    bigboymumu Member

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    Bob,

    I don't blame them for the Bagwell deal. I would of done the same thing...

    Please go back and check from the first day we hired Jimy... I always thought that was a bad move.

    Drabek and Swindell.. I understand that move. I think the snake made a PR move... don't disagree with that move

    Again, you guys can call it hindsight... I say it is past performance when it comes to judging our owner and GM!
     
  16. codell

    codell Member

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    I like Drayton too. I believe Gerry and he do the best they can given the middle market contrainsts under which they work.

    Its easy to critisize how someone else spends their money when a) Its not your money and b) You dont have to take the loss in your pocket book.
     
  17. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Perhaps it would have been better to write "Signing Kent did not work out", rather than writing that it was a mistake. Saying it did not work out is a factual statement (assuming they don't reach the playoffs during his tenure), but saying it is a mistake has different implications.

    Since the Astros did not win in the playoffs after the Johnson trade, some might say it was a mistake, yet it wasn't. It was simply a move that didn't work out as well as we would have liked. So far, the same is true with Kent.
     
  18. codell

    codell Member

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    Its not just what we are calling it, it IS hindsight and you know it is.

    Last year you said Kent was a keeper, now you say keeping him was a mistake. If thats not hindsight, what is it?
     
  19. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    did you think they were valid points at the time kent was signed?

    don't act like you're smarter than gerry in the realm of baseball. you're not.
     
  20. bigboymumu

    bigboymumu Member

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    Whatever dude! Keeping him is a mistake... What the heck?
     

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