I absolutely understand what you're saying, and I agree.....to an extent. The NFL is a business not only for the owners and management, but for the players as well, and they have to do whatever they can to make sure they get theirs while they are able to. And that's why I really had no problem with what Owen was doing while he was UNSIGNED.....but the second you sign that tender, you are now a member of the team, and you must act accordingly. Do I agree with what Dunta and Owen were doing while they were holding out? Not really. But do I understand WHY they were doing it? Absolutely. I believe that all 3 players who are holding out are imperative to our success this season, and as far as ranking them goes, I think it's really a moot point. Football, more than basketball and baseball, is a TRUE team sport. Your individual success is contingent upon what others do. That's why I think it's impossible to say that OD is expendable, along with Dunta and DeMeco, because together, all 3 of them make the Texans a MUCH better football team.
i think he's getting bad (if not downright awful) advice; that doesn't really have any bearing on his play. it's interesting that daniels has the same agent.
Nobody is arguing that OD isnt valuable...but for his asking price, I think we can find a suitable replacement. Also, since when has OD been known for his blocking skills?
you mean... other than you when you claimed he wasn't "that great of a talent," deemed him "replaceable," and thought a rookie 5th rounder "wouldnt be too much of a drop off"? is that your idea of valuable? we actually don't know what his asking price is; only that he'd like to sign a mutli-year deal. but daniels is among the upper tier of TEs in the AFC, from a production standpoint. who said anything about owen daniels' blocking skills? i was commenting on moestavern19's rather simple-minded "worth = # of catches" evaluation of playoff TEs.
You obviously didn't understand a thing I was trying to say, and certainly didn't catch the obvious tone I was responding to another poster with. When did I say a tight end's worth is only in his pass-catching ability? Number of catches = worth? Do you really thing that I'm that simple-minded when it comes to football? Do I really have to spell out what I was really getting at? Your assumptions are downright absurd. I was merely making fun of ryanwagner17's outrageous suggestion that the Tight End is the most integral part of the PASSING game. He's listing guys like Tony Gonzalez, Antonio Gates, Jason Witten, etc... guys who unique weapons in the league... I was pointing out that the success of the TE in the passing game is not directly proportional to offensive success or games won. The Tight End is the most important facet of the PASSING GAME? Are you kidding me? If there was an argument to be made for how vital the TE is to the overall offense, it would have a lot more merit. If anything, a Tight End like Zach Miller, Heath Miller, etc is the prototypical guy you want in your squad... a guy who is a serious threat to catch passes but can also be an extra lineman for the most part. But a guy that doesn't think he's worth Kellen Winslow Jr money. There are some TEs who catch the ball, and there are some TEs that block. You mentioned Shannon Sharpe in Denver, how many times was Dwayne Carswell on the field as an blocker in the running sets? Of course a great blocking TE is valuable in the ZBS, which has been run in Denver for years. Some teams run 2 TE sets, or use an H-back instead... the Colts used Marcus Pollard as an effective extra receiver for years and use Dallas Clark in similar fashion now. Owen Daniels is a good TE, and he fits well in the Texans scheme, but you can't seriously think he's more valuable to the Texans passing game than Andre Johnson. If you do I laugh in your face as if you told me Reggie Bush is as good as Barry Sanders.
See post #3 in this thread. Reports are that he's rejecting either an offer to be the 2nd highest paid TE (around $7 million per year- report by Mcclain) or the 4th highest paid (somewhere around $6 million per year). The logical assumption then would be that he wants at least $6.5 million per year, and probably more. Of course it all depends on how much is guaranteed, but that's too much if you ask me. My guess is the Texans will evaluate Casey and James Hill (supposedly the best blocking TE in the draft) all season and determine how badly they really need OD.
i have no idea who you are or how multi-tiered your thinking might be - but based on your response to ryanwagner17, in which you said, “Lets seeeeeee, lets look at the teams who made the playoffs last year and assess just how vital the Tight End's pass catching ability is to their offensive success.” - i’d say yes. i know; and i’m pointing out that a TE doesn’t have to have a certain degree of “pass catching ability” to still have an impact on offensive success and/or games won. things are fluid – that’s why your post was so silly and simple-minded; you assume everyone’s offense is the same, that game situations never change... jason witten is certainly the most important facet of the cowboy’s passing game; same could be argued of antonio gates in san diego. does heath miller have the same impact on the steelers’ passing game? of course not. but does that mean, since he lacks witten and gates’ “pass catching ability,” that miller is less valuable to pittsburgh’s “offensive success or games won”? a blanket statement dismissing the impact a TE can have on the passing game of a team without considering the offensive make-up of the 32 nfl teams is just as silly as using “pass catching ability” as a means to rate the impact a TE has on “offensive success or games won.” the situation is fluid. on paper, no – but during the course of a game, when johnson gets shut down or hurt? daniels moves up the hierarchy and on that sunday, becomes the most important facet of the PASSING GAME.
i saw it; did you see the post where his agent said of the supposed numbers, "“I’ve read reports in the media about the contract and they are not accurate."? ergo, we actually don't know what his asking price is. if we're having to make "logical assumptions," then we actually don't know what his asking price is... sorry; but he could be hung up on the # of years, the amount of guaranteed money - we have no idea what's been offered or what he wants.
The situation is fluid? Offenses vary? I'd appreciate it if you'd at least respect a conversation enough to not talk down to me like a 4th grader. I'm not the one assuming the TE is the most vital part of the offense, Reggie Bush is a stud RB, and Wes Welker is the #3 WR for the Patriots. But as usual you are still act like an elitist ******* just because you ran a ****ty little website about football that failed. Get the **** over yourself.
Gotta side with moe on this one Ric. I think you misinterpreted what he said. But still, ease up on the personal stuff guys
even though you're acting like a 4th grader?.... see? right here, for instance: this is something a 4th grader would do. and ok, - i shouldn't but i’ll bite: how, exactly, did the web site fail? seriously, i’d LOVE to read your theories on what made a free site we voluntarily shut down a failure. come on - it’ll be fun. (for all of us, i mean - watching you make an even bigger ass of yourself. the floor’s all yours…..)
The TE can account for any percent of an offense, but that cannot speak for anything you see on the field. He's not hitting the endzone like Gates/Gonzalez, but he was key in our surviving more than 3 downs a series. Maybe not as much last year, but thats because Slaton got the go on more 3rd downs, but Daniels was clutch. The Texans draft good and Daniels is the most replaceable but where are we without Daniels and Dreesen doesnt fill out the possession receiver role? Receptions last year Johnson-115 Daniels-70 Walter-60 Slaton-50 Anderson-19 Dreesen-11 Davis-13 Jones-3
Texans sign 4th rounder TE Hill The Texans announced today that they have signed fourth-round draft pick tight end Anthony Hill (6-6, 269). Hill is the third Texans draft choice to sign, joining cornerback Brice McCain and safety Troy Nolan. Hill was the 122nd selection in the 2009 NFL Draft out of North Carolina State. A Houston native, Hill finished his career with 79 receptions for 852 yards and five touchdowns in 37 games. He completed his career with a 10.8 yards-per-catch average. He missed the 2007 season due to knee injury. Hill caught 19 passes for 234 yards and four touchdowns last season. He ended the season strong, tallying 14 of his 16 receptions in the last six games and scoring three touchdowns. He was one of two team captains elected by his peers prior to the season and earned the team’s Ken McNeil Iron Wolf Award for the greatest comeback from injury. http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5345
Me thinking a rookie 5th rounder wouldnt be too much of a drop off...keep in mind OD was a 4th rounder. Not that much of stretch of an assumption based on what Ive seen and what I expect from Casey. Nothing Daniels does is extraordinary. He doesnt make any more spectacular catches than a good pass catching TE. He doesnt have the strength of a Winslow, the jumping ability of a Gates, the overall offensive skillset of a T. Gonzo, the size of a Jason Witten, etc... The TE is very important for what the Texans are trying to do, but are you telling me that the pieces around OD didn't give him a big advantage? You think we'd see any drop in production from our TE spot if OD was replaced with: Kellen Winslow T Gonzales Antonio Gates Chris Cooley Dallas Clark Jason Witten Jeremy Shockey (injury free) Greg Olsen Zach Miller Seriously, with our offense, you plug ANY of these TE and they are capable of doing everything OD did last season. Yes, the TE spot is a very integral part of what the Texans are trying to do and Daniels was a big part of that last season. But, moving forward, I see no reason why the Texans should give top 5 money to OD with the pieces we have in place on offense. Heck, you even stated that you dont think OD is worth the money he is supposedly asking...if its anywhere near top dollar, you dont think it would be a sound move to find a cheaper TE that knows how to catch a ball?
Richard Justice made a good point this morning, this guy out performed his fourth round contract. The teams are in a strong position when these guys are rookies, now its his turn to take advantage of the position he's in. Also, Granato made another good point, we're not used to the texans having players other teams may want
