I remember Bill Worrell saying during a game in the last year or two that Clyde never even STRETCHED much before games, and Clyde responded by saying that stretching for more than a minute or so is a waste of time.
everyone is different. if you want to get trainers into a fight, ask each of them to give their philosophy on stretching. there is no single "right" way to stretch, and for some people, too much stretching can lead to injury just as easily as not as much stretching can. so what i'm trying to say is that if Clyde felt his body was good to go after a minute of stretching, he was probably right.
Are you saying Yao has a higher bbiq than shaq? If so, please explain this. Shaq has a very high bbiq. In fact, shaq is a smart guy period. Now he mumbles a lot, but shaq is a very bright guy. Hardaway isn't a dummy either on the court.
Exactly, he's athletic enough to defend a 4 and strong & long enough to cover a 5. He should get alittle playing time this upcoming season. Also his free throw stroke looks very good. I watched him at Memphis and to me his BBIQ was not as bad as most people are claiming. As long as Dorsey's motor is running at full throttle, he should excel in houston or with another team.
Truth be told? I don't find yao's bbiq to be exceptionally high. Shaq is not an exceptionally smart guy, leeb, sorry. Met him enough times to make that judgement. Likeable as hell, yes! Scholar? No. On court, his bbiq (aka: knowing how to play the game) is not bad, though. He knows what he has and how best to make use of it. Higher than Yao's? Truthfully, yes. My point was that u don't have to be a brilliant guy. Hardaway we'll probably disagree on, for i never had an extreme respect for his knowledge of the game. NEVER. I think he was exceptionally talented, but ultimately not a very smart player on the court.
i agree with this. I don't find either of Yao or Shaq's feel for the game to be particularly good. If you want to look at big men that play with a high BBIQ, I think Tim Duncan and Al Jefferson come to mind, as well as Hakeem and Dikembe. to me, playing as a big with a high BBIQ is about having a good feel for space and the movment of players around you, being able to move in congestion, know where the double team is coming from and make the right pass, or spin away from congestion. Knowing when to stop fighting for offensive position and transition into "rebound" or "get back on d" mode. Knowing when it's smart to go for a blocked shot, or when to simply contest and rebound. That kind of thing. Yao, to me is very mechanical. He's good at what he does because of practice and repetition, not because he's intuitive. Shaq, to me is a unique combination of agility and strength. he picks up so many offensive fouls because he has never much cared about taking what the defense is giving him, or even caring how he is being defended. he is going to try to bull his way to the rim regardless, and that's not the kind of thing that I consider a high BBIQ play. However, the guys like dream, jefferson, duncan . . . those guys are the ones that will have a 20pt/15rb/5bs/5as game and you wont even realize how easy they made it look. they simply have a knack for being in the right place at the right time, timing things perfectly, and making the smart play. If you only look at the defensive side of the ball, ben wallace and deke have to be mentioned as well. they have an uncanny ability to get in the way and change the flow of an offense without fouling. some of it is through intimidation and the way they use it and not any physical movement or action at all, but being able to put all of your tools to use, in the most effective way possible, in the pursuit of winning basketball is pretty much what BBIQ is about IMO.
Basketball IQ and book smarts are two totally different things. LeBron James didn't go to college, yet he is arguably the best player in the game. I don't think he's very intellectual but on the basketball, he sees the court very well and make the right pass to his teammates.
Well, we can disagrree because I've met shaq a few times and nothing comes off as dumb. How do you coin that anyway? I've met michael dell before a few times also and its not like I felt like I was meeting the next einstein either, but his ideas and innovation about how to market a computer was great. Howsmydriving, that just dumb to say shaq doesn't have a great feel for the game and to even put jefferson in the conversation is even dumber. Shaq has one of the highest bbiq's from the pivot than just about anyone to play the game. To hit the cutters in the triangle offense and to set guys up was and is a strong point for shaq. I will go as far as to say shaq bbiq was probably higher than Dream. To read the multiple cuts in the triangle vs the stationary offense Dream played in is almost night and day. Go check their asst:to ratio between shaq and any center and u will see he ranks very high. Then u brought up taking what the defense gives you? Why, when you can just take what you want? Why settle and wait vs being aggressive and take yours?
Understood. My original point of contention who claimed that plaers with "no smarts" don't last. That is patently false...be it book or bb iq, that we're discussing. Hardaway, imo, lacked both. Same for francis or swift. Talented idiots, but their talent allowed them to survive. Some have one but not the other: shaq, etc.
HowsMyDriving, Can't agree with this one... Shaq, received a lot of offensive fouls because of his size and the refs not really understanding how to call a game with Shaq playing. Players such as Divac would just flop if Shaq barely touched them and he would get called for a foul. Shaq, understands the game and the center position very well, he may not be able to write you a 20 page report on "the consumption of Rocket fuel and it's use"; but the guy knows the game.
i dont think i could possibly disagree more. after i take a minute and collect my thoughts, i'll respond.
I'm a bit taken aback. While I'm one of those cats that thinks Shaq is a pretty smart BB player, I would never in a million years think he was as smart as Hakeem, much less smarter. You put the Dream in the same system, with the same coach and the same surrounding team, and you're going to have banners hanging left, right, and center. In my opinion.
i've tried to write my thoughts on this a few different ways, and i can feel it turning into a book every time. i'll just say that i have watched shaqs entire career start to finish, and i find him to be an average big man in terms of BBIQ. his success is more due to him being a 100/100 in size, strength, balance, and agility than it is because he's intuitive and understands the game. does he succeed because he knows what the opposing offense is doing? does he succeed because he understands what the opposing defense is doing? does he know when to follow his shot, rotate, jump out on a pnr, help the helper, when to go for a block, etc? honestly, i havent seen much of it. matter of fact, i will go so far and say that if he had been anything but an absolute physical freak of size, strength, balance, and agility, he would not have been a very good basketball player. i think people underappreciate what a freak of nature that man is, to be so quick and explosive at that size. but i dont think he plays the game particularly intelligently. more than likely because he hasnt had to, in order to succeed. i guess for me the question of BBIQ is one of bringing all your tools to bear in order to maximize winning basketball games. its a question of success because of physical dominance versus success because you truly understand the game, your place in it, your impact, and how to manipulate the game for the success of your team. i just dont think there's anything remarkably intelligent about the way shaq played the game, from a game-within-the game basketball perspective. maybe that's not the best way to put it, but i simply dont.
from Joey Dorsey update to discussing the nuances of Shaq's basketball IQ in the same thread ---only on clutchfans!
Hope dorsey comes back a beast next season. In the first 3 games of the summer league he grabbed 43 rebounds. __________________ "H-Town pride from the Southside!!!"
this is a great example of BBIQ actually. Vlade is/was a notorious flopper. He was also a brilliant passing big man. He was not particularly athletic, but found a way to score, rebound, defend despite that. whether we like it or not, being a "good" flopper/charge-taker is a BBIQ play. if you look at the notorious floppers, they are almost all high BBIQ guys. shane, chuck, luis, ginobili, etc etc. they understand that its a weapon they can use to neutralize physical advantages of bigger/stronger opponents. why did the flop evolve otherwise? why would proper defensive positioning matter otherwise? you know the rules and position yourself such that the rules help you defend players like shaq.
sorry, it just bothers me when people attack Joey Dorsey's BBIQ based on how he's playing in relatively disorganized summer league games. the man was the best defensive center and arguably best defensive player in college basketball for two years. that doesnt happen with a low bbiq. not if we're talking about real defense and not simply blocked shots and rebounds.
Dream is my favorite professional player in any sport of all time and he was a great player, but I think shaq has one of the best bbiq from the pivot of all time. Now I can agree that maybe if rudy had guys cutting more and slashing that dream wouldve passed better, no argument. We can also agree that shaq had a better cast throughout his career, but we can look and see that shaq had more success as a team player and individual player. HowsMyDriving, we will just disagree about shaq's basketball iq. His teams won a crazy amount of games in the regular season and post season with him as the best player. To play in the triangle offense, you have to have a certain level of anticipation and basketball acumen to be successful. Yes shaq was a brute and used that to his advantage, but you also have to look at how he would have 2 guys hanging off his arms and still hit cutters and make the correct play with minimum turnovers.
